The first thirty of Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja’s MP3 transcripts.

 

73.03.00.A / 73.03.00.B / 73.06.27.A / 77.00.00 / 78.03. _ . A [GBC] / 78.03_B [GBC] / 79.00.00.A /

79.00.01.A / 79.00.01.B / 79.03.00.A / 79.03.00.B / 79.03.01.A / 79.03.01.B / 80.00.00.A / 80.00.00.B /

80.00.01.A_807_ / 80.00.01.B_807_ / 80.07.11.A / 80.07.11.B / 80.08.18.A_80.08.19.A / 80.08.18 /

80.08.19.B / 80.08.19.C / 80.08.19.D / 80.08.20.A / 80.08.20.B / 80.10.00.A / 80.10.00.B / 80.10.22.A /

80.10.22.B

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His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

&

His Divine Grace Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swāmī Mahārāja

 

73.03.00. A

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ... and this is not a chance coincidence, but a matter of innate fortune ... this sort of grace is being conferred on me and getting me the permanent services ________ means permanent settlement. So it comes down from Him to the smallest and negligent creature can ever be conceived in this ________ as His grace, so much His grace. We are very eager to get some happiness but even a point is very much dear to us. A speck of happiness of this can…

    Once, Professor [Nisikanta] Sanyal, he told when he was a boy in; he was a man of Faridpur and there the Ganges water is very dear. So from his childhood he was habituated to see Ganges water by drops. So, a drop of Ganges water is stuffed on one’s head and he’s purified. The conception of Ganges water it is revered in that place. But his father was serving in Faridpur on the verge of Ganges. Once, following his father he’s coming this side and passing through Ganges water. Then, when, he told, “What river is this?”

    His father told, “This is the Ganges, River Ganges.”

    “So much water, the boat is passing through Ganges water and only a drop of Ganges water can never be found, to hardly be found in our country, and so much Ganges water is here and the boat is passing through, over it.”

    So, so much happiness ...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ānandāmbudhi. [Śikṣāṣṭakam, 1]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ. So, all blissfulness, all love. All deviated what is so much here, this land, this part, and there everything is all dancing, gamanam nāṭyaṁ, and toyam amṛtam, all drink is that nectar.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kathā gānaṁ nāṭyaṁ gamanam [Brahma-saṁhitā, 56]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And kathā gānaṁ, all words are sweet because their subject matter is sweetness personified, Kṛṣṇa. Kathā gānaṁ, pleasing everybody that kathā. Gamanam nāṭyaṁ. And the very environment, trees, cows, lands, everything, all fulfilling our purpose. “Oh. You are Kṛṣṇa bhakta, everything for you is there, everything for you offering them, everything, we are all your friends. You can take anything you like. We are ready for your satisfaction. Opulence, opulence being offered from all sides. That is the meagre representation to us, in this foreign area, area where we fallen souls are living. That has been extended through the scriptures and the sādhus. The intimation, sādhus are agents coming down from that land to here to recruit us, to take us to that sphere. ‘You are so cruelly representing you, like a cover, you like happiness, you want happiness, you want, are you seeking happiness, ecstasy? Oh, come with me. The opulence is there, the coin, the mine is there. You come. How much can you take? How much you can contain? Your...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s song brought good news, I forget that song.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. Śrī vaikuṇṭha puri ata sreya savan [?]

 

Devotee: Kalyāṇa-Kalpataru (?)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Kalyāṇa-Kalpataru (?) [a verse is quoted]

    Many such trees and creepers are there, and only one I have tried to come down here for your good... Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. The Name is the highest medium Mahāprabhu recommends, Name. And, it is open to all, open to all. Not much question of eligibility in taking the Name. From whatever corner he may come, only a sincere will is necessary. ‘Yes, I want.’ ‘Do you sincerely?’ ‘Yes. I want this.’ And that is the qualification. No other qualification is necessary, only sincere will, only, ‘Yes, I want this.’ But everything is there, and ‘yes, come forward, I shall give you.’ But the will must be śraddhā, faith.

 

Kesava naho dulabha ahankara pitanam tu madye padvatya apa rasaya [?]

Ahankara navrtyanam kesava nahi dulabha [?]

 

    He’s not far away, only the egoism is the wall between the two. And if the egoism of karma and jñānaremoved then we are with the Lord, we are with the Lord ____________ [?] Far for them and near for the others, for the śraddhā-rūpa, He’s near. So near that we cannot conceive of that nearness. Even perhaps me self is not so near to me self. He’s so near to us, we can see clearly. I cannot see me as much as He can see me. I cannot love me as much as He loves me, and His Names’ love. I can’t love me self so much. Such is our relationship with the Lord. But the Divine Name, the divine master, can make us conscious of the Divine. Act for our destination. What are you doing with everything? Only gathering some transient feelings of this material sensation of this material body...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Would you like to stop...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Swāmī Mahārāja has done a miracle, he has done a miracle! What Bhaktivinoda conceived and Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta] tried to translate the conception into action in his last days. And anyhow we find that through Swāmī Mahārāja these things have been fulfilled. We are happy, we are glad, we are proud of him. We love to awe. Our Guru Mahārāja told that when one person has come to take dīkṣā and to stay in the Maṭh, then he said that after wandering a long time in the foreign land he’s again coming just to his home, homeward. God-ward means homeward, back to God, back to home, back to Godhead. Back to God means back to home, sweet, sweet home. Our home is there and nowhere else. So, we may be quite free there. No apprehension of any misgivings or misunderstanding. Such boldness and clear faith we can go on, onwards, onwards. And what we are leaving on the back, that is all mortal things, transient. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

 

    [I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They are just like desire trees who can fulfill the desires of everyone, and they are full of compassion for the fallen conditioned souls.]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Jai Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja Ki Jai.

 

Assembled Devotees: Jai.

........

Śrīla Prabhupāda: [So we are thinking we are very much fortunate to hear His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja. He is,]

    …by age and by experience, in both ways he’s senior to me. I am also always fortunate to have his association since a very long time - perhaps since 1930 or something like that. At that time, he did not accept sannyāsa; he just left home, vānaprastha. In his white dress he went to Allahabad. Mahārāja, I think you remember this incident when you went to Allahabad.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, I do.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. At that time...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...we took prasādam on the roof.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. [Everyone laughs] On that auspicious occasion we were connected. Before that, in 1920, 22, when I was manager in Dr. Bose’s Laboratory, a young man, and I was a nationalist in the Congress Party, I was a devotee of Mahatma Gandhi and CS Das. At that time...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: 1920, but at the beginning of non-cooperation.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, I was in connection with Congress by 1917 when Annie Besant became the Congress President. Then I became serious in 1920 and I gave up my education. So one of my friends...perhaps you know, Mahārāja, that Narin Mandi...he was my intimate friend. So in their house old [Bhakti Pradipa] Tīrtha Mahārāja went to beg some alms, there was a rich man, so he informed me that, “One nice sannyāsī came to our house and he has invited us to go to UlṭāḌāṅgā there in the Gauḍīya Maṭh. So he has invited me, I wish to go there. Why don’t you come? Let us go together.”

    He was my very intimate friend. So at that time I was a little pessimistic: “Why should I go? I know all the sādhus there; I am not going.”

    So he forced me: “Oh, why not? Let us go.”

    “All right, let us go.” So I went to see His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in 1922 in that UlṭāḌāṅgā building.

    At that time Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta] was sitting on the roof, there was a small house, room, and we were welcomed because Mr. Lal Mandi was a very rich man and he contributed some money. So we went to see Prabhupāda, offer our obeisances.

    So immediately he said that, “You are all educated young men. Why don’t you preach Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message throughout the whole world?”

    So I replied to him that, “We are a dependent nation. Who will hear our message? We can talk of all these things after we get independence.” Because I was politically-minded at that time, Yes. So he refuted my argument. Certainly I was defeated and I took his words very seriously; I appreciated. Then we were offered some prasādam, we came down.

    Then my friend Lal Mandi asked me, “How did you like this sādhu?”

    “Yes, here is a sādhu in whose hands Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s message is there, and it will be done. I think this is very nice.” That was my appreciation.

    And then in 1923 I resigned my post as manager in Bose’s Laboratory and I accepted the agency of the whole of U.P. beginning from Mamasai (?) up to Delhi, and I made my head office in Allahabad. So I was always thinking, “Oh yes, I met a very nice sādhu.” From the very beginning that was my impression that, “I have met a real sādhu.” So actually the words lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya - was actually, I could see that, finely, for a moment.

 

['sādhu saṅga,' 'sādhu saṅga,' - sarva śāstre kaya / lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya]

 

    [“The verdict of all revealed scriptures is that by even a moment's association with a pure devotee, one can attain all success.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 22.54]

 

    And he impressed so much, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, that it continued. Then in 1928, when there was Kumba Mela.... Mahārāja, when did you join Gauḍīya Maṭh?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Twenty-seven.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Twenty-seven, that means...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I was thirty when I met Prabhupāda in August, 1926. That was my first meeting, and I joined the mission in May, 1927.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In 1928 there was a Kumbha Mela I think, and during that Kumbha Mela [Bhakti Pradīp] Tīrtha Mahārāja with a party came to my shop. _____________ And I saw, “Oh, these are the people I saw, Gauḍīya Maṭh, yes, come on.”

 

Devotees: (Laughter)

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I was so glad. So Tīrtha Mahārāja asked me that, “We have come new here, we are going to establish a temple in Allahabad. We have heard your name, so we have come to you. Please help us.”

    “Yes, I will help you.” So in this way I contributed, my attending physician contributed, and some other friends. In this way we became friends. And Tīrtha Mahārāja, old Tīrtha Mahārāja, had first meeting in my house at Allahabad, with, I think, Sarvaiṣṇava Brahmacārī and Bir Kṛṣṇa Brahmacārī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yajavara Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yajavara Mahārāja, yes. So my father was Vaiṣṇava, but when I invited the Gauḍīya Maṭh sādhus, my father thought that I have invited some sādhus of the Ramakrishna Mission, so he was not very interested. (Laughter) When Tīrtha Mahārāja was speaking, I called my father - my father at that time was invalid - I called him, “Please come down, there is a meeting with the Gauḍīya Maṭh.” So he could not resist my request; he came down, but he did not think that some devotees have come — he thought that, “These Ramakrishna Mission rascals have come.”

 

Devotees: (Laughter)

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So he was not very happy, but I told, he was sitting – he, in the meeting he just criticised them. Then when he heard the speech of our old Tīrtha Mahārāja, our old God-brother, he understood, “Oh, they are Vaiṣṇavas!” Then immediately after the meeting he fell down on his feet. “I misunderstood you sir that you are Ramakrishna Mision sādhu. I am so glad to meet you.”

    That is the beginning of my intimate relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭh. And they were coming, and whenever somebody would come, I would invite them to lecture in my house. In that way, Śrīdhara Mahārāja — at that time, Rāmendra Sundara Bhaṭṭācaryya — he was also invited to my house, and before that, I think I invited Bhāratī Mahārāja and you were with Bhāratī Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. So, in this way my connection became developed with Gauḍīya Maṭh. Then, gradually the process began: harisye tad dhanam shanaih [“Hari-Nāma takes everything away.”] [Laughter] I wanted to become a very big businessman and there was good opportunity. I was very nicely associated with the chemical industry of India - Dr. Bose's Laboratory, Bengal Chemical, ________ and all of them - they liked my business organisation. Then I started a big laboratory in Lucknow – so, that was golden days - but gradually everything became tainted, and at last my Allahabad business was lost; it was not lost, on account of so many debts I had to hand it over to Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose because I was his agent. I had some debts, so I told him, “All right, you take this business.” In this way the business was lost. So I was not going to, I was sitting at home, and Yajavara Mahārāja - at that time, Sarvaiṣṇava Brahmacārī and Atulananda Brahmacārī, they used to come to take their subscriptions, and they were requesting, “Why don't you come to our Maṭh, why don't you come to our Maṭh? You are now free.” So I used to visit their temple. That was not far away from my house. Then they intimately sensed the Gauḍīya Maṭh grew. In this way, I think in 1933...yes, Sir [William] Malcome Hailey [Governor of United Provinces] came to lay down the foundation stone of the Allahabad Maṭh. Mahārāja, I think you remember?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, we were coming from Vṛndāvana parikramā.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, parikramā. And the parikramā, that is also another incident. I was not initiated at that time, but I had a very good admiration for the Gauḍīya Maṭh people, and before 1933 I met Śrīdhara Mahārāja and other devotees - old Tīrtha Mahārāja – so they were very kind to me. So the parikramā, I thought, “What these people doing on this parikramā? Let me go.” So I met them in Kosi. Perhaps, Mahārāja, you may remember, and all people were going to see some Śeṣaśāyī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Including Nimi Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. So at that time Vinod Bābu, later on, Keśava Mahārāja, he informed that, “Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta] is going to Mathurā tomorrow morning, and he will speak Hari kathā this evening. Anyone who wants to remain may remain, or otherwise they may prepare to go to see Śeṣaśāyī.”

    So at that time I think only ten or twelve men remained. Out of them Śrīdhara Mahārāja was one of them, and I thought it wise, “What can I see, this Śeṣaśāyī? Let me hear. Prabhupāda will speak; let me hear.” So Prabhupāda marked that...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It was better to listen to him than wasting the eye-experience on Śeṣaśāyī.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he’s a Vaikuṇṭha person he could understand that this boy is eager to hear. So he very much appreciated. So when he came back to Allahabad, so, Gaṇeśa Bābu, he introduced me, that, “Here is a nice devotee.”

    So Prabhupada immediately replied, “Yes, I’ve marked it. He does not go away. He hears very well. Yes, I will accept him as disciple.”

    Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭh developed, and gradually as it developed, the other side [family and business] diminished.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: [Laughs]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: [Chuckles] Then, there was a long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness [Śrīdhara Mahārāja] for several years. I had the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa and Prabhupāda liked him to prepare me. Śrīdhara Mahārāja lived as a…

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: As a sannyāsī.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, ha, He lived in my house as a sub-lessee for three years. So naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good advisor. I took his advice and instruction very seriously because from the very beginning I know he’s a pure Vaiṣṇava and devotee and I wanted to associate with him, and tried to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me. So our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gauḍīya Maṭh, I wanted to organise another organisation making Śrīdhara Mahārāja the head. And I wanted to arrange at that time for [Bhakti Saranga] Goswāmī Mahārāja to have the house of one of my friends at.... Śrīdhara Mahārāja, you may remember those things. I wanted to organise in so many ways, but somehow or other....

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: To hire one house on Tennison Road, belonging to ____________ in a very small place.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. He wanted to rent us only for 90 rupees. I told him, “Just give me the contract,” because at that time was getting 125, but because I am his friend, “All right, I’ll give you for 90.” So, that could not happen, somehow or other. So I was trying from the very beginning, after the disappearance of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: At that appearance of Back to Godhead, it occurred?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, in 1944.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: 1944.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I think that you were at that time at my house.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So somehow or other this intention for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu increased, and the other side decreased. _________________ I was not disinclined, but Kṛṣṇa forced me, that, “You must give up!” [Laughter] The history is known better to Śrīdhara Mahārāja - how it decreased, decreased, decreased...then, almost it became nil. And then I left home in 1950, or whatever it was there: All right, you do what you will like. In 1950 for four years I remained as vānaprastha, almost four years, from 1954 and 1959.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In the meantime, Bombay life.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Bombay life, yes; that was minimised householder life. I opened an office in Bombay for my business. But the Gauḍīya Maṭh was established by us. I am one of them, and Śrīdhara Mahārāja also, and we made two parties for begging, collecting alms. Śrīdhara Mahārāja, myself, and Goswāmī Mahārāja - that time he was Atulacandra Goswāmī. So I took them to some of my friends: chemist friends, doctor friends. I collected about 500 rupees through that. Śrīdhara Mahārāja would speak, I introduced, and Goswāmī, at that time, Goswāmī Mahārāja would canvass. [Laughter] In this way, three combined together, in one day or two days, we, at that time 500 rupees was a big amount.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Big sum.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Big sum, yes. So Goswāmī Mahārāja very much appreciated and he began to speak highly about me that, “Abhay Bābu is so expert, he has got so many friends, and he has collected something. So why should he not be in charge of the Math?” In this way, “Why should he not be with us? Why is he living separately in this way?”

    So Prabhupāda, perhaps Śrīdhara Mahārāja you remember it, he said, “I think it is better to live separately from you people. And he'll do the necessity in due course of time.”

    I could not understand what Śrīla Prabhupāda meant by that. So his inclination, blessings were always upon me, although I was unfit, but he was so kind.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ......of collecting sufficient funds to conduct, to pay the creditor of the Bombay Maṭh, he asked you...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, Prabhupāda gave me some money. He was afraid, so: “You take this money. When they need, you can give.”

    So by Guru, Vaiṣṇava - whatever position I have got, it is by Guru's mercy and the Vaiṣṇava’s blessings; otherwise I am insignificant. So I wish that Śrīdhara Mahārāja may bestow his blessings, as you are doing always, may Guru Mahārāja may help me, so I can give some service....

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Remember... some dissertation of Bhāgavatam at Rādhā-Dāmodara on Jīva Goswāmī’s appearance day?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, Jīva Goswāmī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That gave you that last impression which you told about and the possibility for foreign [preaching].

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And Guru Mahārāja wanted, and his Gauḍīya Maṭh people did not do anything. So: “Let me try in this old age, and the inspiration came, and I went [to the West] by his grace and it has become little successful. I have no credit. It is all the blessings of Guru and Vaiṣṇavas, that’s all. I have no credit. I do not know how things are happening because I am not at all in a bona fide position. But it is through chadiya vaisnava seva, nistara payeche keba. [Without serving an ideal Vaiṣṇava, who can be delivered from the clutches of māyā?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: _____________________________ [?] Carry me where You like. And He carried towards the land of gold and Golden Avatāra. [Laughter]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. I always say to my American disciples, ‘That you are so much taken care of by the Lord. Your position is very good. Now you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you’ll become a perfect nation. That I speak out. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa you have got everything, all material opulence. Now make it plus Kṛṣṇa, then it will be very nice. Lakṣmī Nārāyaṇa.” So these boys are trying very sincerely and seriously, and I hope even if I do not live many more years, they will carry out this order.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It is all coming down from Him _________________________________ [?]

We are in that current, so we are also counted within that current.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Current is there, so it will be done. It will be done. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Other side being washed away __________________ [?] And we’re being washed away by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Yes. Everything is there, everything is there.

........

The following is part of Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja’s lecture at ISKCON'S Śrī Chandrodaya Mandir.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This āśrama is being opened today. What is its position? In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [11.25.25] we find,

 

vanaṁ tu sāttviko vāso, grāmo rājasa ucyate / tāmasaṁ dyūta-sadanaṁ, man-niketaṁ tu nirguṇam

 

    [“Residence in the forest is in the mode of goodness, residence in a town is in the mode of passion, residence in a gambling house displays the quality of ignorance, and residence in a place where I (the Supreme Lord) reside is transcendental.”]

 

Vana-vasa, that plain living with minimum materials to help our life - that is vana-vasa. A simple life, plain living high thinking, simple life, but there also we are master of that little thing, that sattvika-vasa. Most conducive to our religious life, no grandeur of any material enjoyment, etc., that is sattvika-vasa or vana-vasa. Rajasa-vasa is a life where we are engaged in various activities in the uplifting of the society, and the world and civilisation. That is rajasa, where maximum energy is spent to improve the paraphernalia where we live to make us comfortable. Tamasa-vasa dyūta-sadanaṁ - without caring for any social life, only for the maximum amount of sense pleasure and minimum amount of giving to others, to society or any paraphernalia, a reckless life, the life in the clubhouse or hotel or something like that, is irresponsible life – tamasa-vasa dyūta-sadanaṁ. Man-niketaṁ tu nirguṇam – and if we live our life in the house of the Lord, we may live, we may guide ourselves in any amount of grandeur, or anything of the type – but still it is nirguṇa, because we are not masters there, we are servants, we are servants. The vana-vasa, though simple with minimum materials surrounding our life to live, but still there we are masters, we command. But here we are mere servants – everything to be served. Whatever we shall see there, all around, even a tree, even a creeper, even the dust, that is to be served and is not to be enjoyed or renounced. That is the form of life, a life of worship, a life of devotion. Not only to the Deity of the Lord but including all His paraphernalia and to see that they are also serving the Supreme Entity. With this idea – to be a serving factor in the all-serving environment of the Lord – man-niketaṁ tu nirguṇam. So we have come here to live a life of nirguṇa life, guṇa tīrtha, crossing all sorts of relativities with this material world, of whatever conception it may be, and to learn that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ.

 

[īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ, yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam]

 

    [“Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.”] [Śrī Īśopaniṣad, 1]

 

    The fundamental truth given in the Upaniṣads, Īśopaniṣad, that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ – that in everything there is the presence of the Supreme Entity, the Supreme Lord. With this conception we are to live in such a training house.

    I was told that in Back to Godhead one gentleman he wrote that so-called universities and colleges and schools are slaughterhouses. I am very much pleased with this idea. Yes. They are nothing but slaughterhouses. And this sort of institution that our Guru Mahārāja has inaugurated in this world to uplift us and all jīvas towards the Supreme, to the worship, towards the loving service of the Supreme Entity, here like oasis in a desert. All these are oasis in the desert. They are life-giving and not flattering institutions, like so many educational institutions that we find.

Savijna mammate jaya – where this sort of training comes, that goes towards the centre, towards reality, towards beauty, towards harmony, towards solution of life, towards nectar giving life – these institutions are only helpful and this is necessary.

    Once Madana-mohana Malaviya came, a famous leader in the past history, that is recent history of India, he came to visit our Guru Mahārāja and after listening to his words he told that, “Every village should have one centre of your Divine Grace.”

    But our Guru Mahārāja answered in return that, “I want to make everybody a temple of the Lord, every human being, every human body I want to make a temple therein, not only villages.”

 

End of 73.03.00. A

 

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Start of 73.03.00.B

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

&

His Divine Grace Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmī Mahārāja

 

73.03.00. B

 

The following is part of Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja’s lecture at ISKCON'S Śrī Chandrodaya Mandir.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...the mission of Śrī Kṛṣṇa and His beloved. We heard, there are elevationists, there are renunciationists, but we are servitors. Gehaṁ juṣām api manasy udiyāt sadā naḥ.

 

[āhuś ca te nalina-nābha padāravindaṁ, yogeśvarair hṛdi vicintyam agādha-bodhaiḥ

saṁsāra-kūpa-patitottaraṇāvalambaṁ, gehaṁ juṣām api manasy udiyāt sadā naḥ]

 

    [“The gopīs spoke thus: ‘Dear Lord, whose navel is just like a lotus flower, Your lotus feet are the only shelter for those who have fallen into the deep well of material existence. Your feet are worshipped and meditated upon by great mystic yogīs and highly learned philosophers. We wish that these lotus feet may also be awakened within our hearts, although we are only ordinary persons engaged in household affairs.’”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.82.49]  &  [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 13.136]

 

True to heaven and heart, to celebrate them. True to the keenest point of heaven and heart, cloister in the heart, the knowledge of these – but heart has been made the cloister. The gopī-bhajana is to make the heart the cloister. Not that the cloister has a separate place. The heart will be cloister and only Kṛṣṇa conception of Godhead can make possible the heart to be the cloister. The wholesale will be converted, every nook and corner. Nothing should be left out. No faculty should be left out for any other purpose but to devote in all respects to the Supreme Entity, to be faithful to the extreme. Nothing should be left. This is only possible in Śrī Kṛṣṇa conception of Godhead, akhila-rasāmṛta-murtiḥ. All sorts of ecstasy, happiness, anything of the type can be possible in its divine form when we find Śrī Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord and nowhere else.

One western gentleman told that there are many conceptions of religion in different parts of the world, but we do not find any conception of religion where twenty four hours can be devoted in the service of the Supreme Lord. Not only Sunday, not only thrice in the day, not only five times in the day, but every hour and second should be devoted in the service of the Supreme Entity and then nothing will be left behind. This sort of service is only possible in kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Śikṣāṣṭaka, 3] and in the service, in the aṣṭa-kālīya-līlāof Śrī Kṛṣṇacandra Himself in the mādhurya-rasa. Śrī Caitanyadeva came down to this world to preach that, to give that nectarine life to our need, one and all. Nrmatrasy-adhikarita – take the Name of the Lord and you will find yourself in His harem one day, one time. It’s the easiest, not money is necessary, not physical energy in great quantity is necessary, no other helping things, only try to take the Name sincerely.

In a right channel it should be acquired otherwise there will be some tampering energy. Trade in the name of religion is also going on here and there, and we should save ourselves from those difficulties and by following a bona fide path we can get our achievement. So, in the day of the advent of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa consciousness means Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, consciousness is caitanya, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa who came here to arouse in us the pure consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, means serving Kṛṣṇa in all aspects, all respects. And this laudable attempt is being done in great quantity by our Swāmī Mahārāja. So we are very happy getting the chance of attending this function. Swāmī Mahārāja kī jaya!

........

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’sdeep and affectionate heart, conceived that why not Śrī Caitanyadeva’s prema-dharma is capturing the world. It is so self evident. It is the only constructive religion to the farthest extreme. And why not this is appreciated, this cannot but be appreciated. He has not only told that east, west, far west, all the world will come under the banner of Śrī Caitanyadeva. But also, he very strongly told that in the future no other religion will exist than the religion of Śrī Caitanyadeva, Nāmasaṅkīrtana. This also he has stated, foretold. And for Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura], his higher heart was trying utmost to spread this idea of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, every nook and corner of the world. Why not men, they should accept such a natural and so healthy religion and so simple religion.

     It cannot be denied that we are so many particles, we are conditioned beings. Why not we seek some absolute centre for our health? Śaraṇāgati. This is self evident. Dainyam, ātma-nivedanam, when there is dainya, when there is real sincere feeling of ones self, the next thing cannot but come to take shelter under some greater power. And that relation must be of love and affection, love. And the beauty and love is controlling the central truth, central thing, not power. Power cannot control, cannot be the control in the extreme senses, but love should be, in a sincere heart this must be reflected.

So, that affectionate and deep thinking heart of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and Prabhupāda, and their desire. Their desire means Mahāprabhu’s desire and Kṛṣṇa’s desire. And that has come embodied in Swāmī Mahārāja. And so many efficient men have joined, both ladies and gentlemen, have joined his mission to work out to a sure success, this we pray and we feel.

........

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And his mother’s age was about seventy years. He was the youngest son of his family, but still, for the deliverance of the fallen souls of the world he took sannyāsa. So the sannyāsa order is accepted according to the predecessors. In Vaiṣṇava sampradāya there are tridaṇḍī sannyāsa. The māyāvādīŚaṅkara sampradāya they are ekadaṇḍī. Our Vaiṣṇava sampradāya tridaṇḍī sannyāsa is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Many great preachers and authorities they took sannyāsa, tridaṇḍa  sannyāsa. Tridaṇḍa  means kāya, manoand vākya, body, mind, and words. In this rod there are four rods. Three kāya-mano-vākya, and one; the person. So, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s desire was that Indians should take up the responsibility for preaching the cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. As I was explaining last night.

 

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra / janma sārthaka kari’ kara para-upakāra

 

    [“One who has taken his birth as a human being in the land of India [Bhārata-varṣa] should make his life successful and work for the benefit of all other people.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, 9.41]

 

The Indians, they’re meant for giving something to the world, but unfortunately they have become beggars, simply asking something from you. We have got such a great culture, Vedic culture; that we can give tremendous benefit to the whole world, but we have given up. There are so many jagat gurus, but for us they have not seen even what is jagat, but still, they’re passing on as jagat guru, but their limited action is within the well, creatures, upa manduka. Upa manduka does not know what is Atlantic Ocean; frog. A frog living within the well, if he’s informed, “There is Atlantic Ocean sir which is called jagat.” This is not jagat. You have become jagat guru within the well. You become jagat guru, go to the Atlantic Ocean, or Pacific Ocean. Preach the Vedic culture. Then you claim to become jagat guru. Otherwise don’t falsely claim within the limit of your well, upa manduka.

    So, we are to select persons who can preach the Vedic culture all over the world, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means properly training. Now this boy, Mahansa Swāmī, he’s known from today as Mahansa Swāmī. He was brahmacārī. He’s coming from Parsee community of Bombay. Similarly, we are selecting from all communities and training them how to become preachers of the Vedic culture. We require hundreds and thousands of preachers. Although we have got centres all over the world, but that is not sufficient. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted in every village and every town all over the world.

 

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grama / sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma

 

[Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the pioneer of Śrī Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana. He said: “I have come to inaugurate the chanting of the Holy Name of Kṛṣṇa, and that Name will reach every nook and corner of the universe.”] [Caitanya-Bhāgavat]

 

He wanted a pṛthivīte on the surface of the globe, as many towns and cities and villages are there, everywhere this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be spread. So we have got a tremendous task. And the responsibility is more or less on the Indians, as I’ve already explained, bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma. Those who are actually human beings born in this holy land of Bhārata-varṣa, they should learn this Vedic culture thoroughly and preach all over the world so that they may be benefited. Para-upakara, for want of this Vedic culture the whole world is in darkness. Tamo mukun angre nisevane. Tamo means this darkness. So, instead of competing with them, and other things, how one can drink wine, and one can eat fish and flesh, we are making competition in that way. There’s no question of competing in this life. Just give them knowledge so that they may be saved. This human form of life is not meant for becoming animals. So, my request again that those who are actually proud of becoming an Indian, they should come, join, and preach this cult all over the world. Thank you very much.

........

Śrīla Prabhupāda: ...speaking about knowledge, perfect knowledge. Knowledge received from common man or any person within this material world, infected with four kinds of defect, cannot be perfect. The so-called scientists, philosophers, mental speculation, or dramatists, or writers, as we experience, their talking all are nonsense. This is our challenge, because the basic principle of their knowledge is ignorance, ajñāna. Big, big scientists, they simply theorise and they try to support their theories with the words, ‘it maybe,’ ‘perhaps.’ That is not perfection. As soon as you say, ‘it maybe’ that means you have no perfect knowledge. As soon as you say, ‘perhaps’ that means you have no perfect knowledge. So all these scientists and philosophers they use these words, ‘it maybe,’ ‘perhaps.’

Therefore we have to receive knowledge from a perfect person. The perfect person means ‘who is not illusioned, who does not commit mistakes.’ All of us we commit mistakes, but a perfect person does not commit mistakes. This is the difference between perfect and imperfect. We are illusioned to accept something in place of something else. Just like the example is given by some philosophers to accept the rope by mistake as a snake. This is called illusion. So, these are water in the desert. This is due to our imperfection. So, a person who is liberated, or not under the control of the material nature, he’s not illusioned neither he commits mistakes.

Another defect is our senses are imperfect. We use our senses under certain conditions. Just like we have our eyes but we can see only when there is sunlight or electric light. Otherwise, our eyes are useless. Therefore we haven’t got perfect eyes. But one who has got perfect eyes he can see past, present, and future. Imperfect our senses. And we conditioned souls, although we admit that we have imperfect senses, we commit mistakes, we are illusioned, we take the place of teachers. That is cheating. That is cheating. If you know that you are imperfect, why should you take the place of a teacher? That is cheating. Bhrama, pramāda, karaṇāpāṭava, vipralipsā.

So these defects are completely absent, conspicuous by absence. Nirasta-kuhakaṁ, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam[1.1.1] it is said about the Absolute Truth as nirasta-kuhakaṁ, kuha means illusion, imperfection. So, with Absolute Truth there is no such imperfect knowledge. Nirasta-kuhakaṁ, dhāmnā svena sadānirasta-kuhakaṁ. Sadā means that once he was defective, now he has become nirasta-kuhakaṁ, no, not like that. The Absolute Truth is always sadānirasta-kuhakaṁ, dhāmnā svena, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi.

 

    That Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is speaking, “Jñānam te' ham sa-vijñānam, with practical experience, or by experimental knowledge, jñānam. Jñānam te' ham sa-vijñānam, idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ, incomplete. Yaj jñātvā, if we try to understand this knowledge what I am speaking to you Arjuna. Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo, in this material world, bhūyo again, 'nyaj, jñātavyam avaśiṣyate, you’ll have anything more to know.”

 

[“Now I shall fully describe to you, with the taste of the flavour of My divine sweetness, this knowledge of My grand majestic splendour and opulences. After knowing all this, absolutely nothing will remain for you to know, being situated on this beautiful, joyful, and victorious path.”]

    [Bhagavad-gītā, 7.2]

 

    This is Vedānta, Veda means knowledge, ānta means end. So if you receive knowledge from the Supreme Perfect Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, then that is the end of knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo, vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham.

 

[sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo, vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham]

 

[“I am situated (as the Supersoul) within the heart of all souls, and from Me arises the soul’s remembrance, knowledge, and the dissipation of both (according to his karma, or action in the mundane plane). I am the exclusive knowable (ecstatic) principle of all the Vedas. I am the author of the Vedānta - Vedavyāsa, the expounder of the knowable meaning of the Vedas. And certainly I am the knower of the purport of the Vedas.”]  [Bhagavad-gītā, 15.15]

 

yasmin vijñāte sarvam evam vijñātam bhavati

[yasmin prāpte sarvam idam prāptam bhavati]

 

    [“By knowing Him, everything is known - by getting Him, everything is gained.”] [Upaniṣads]

 

This is Vedic injunction. If you simply try to understand what Kṛṣṇa is speaking, to understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult, that is not possible. We are so small that it is not possible to analyse Kṛṣṇa and understand Him. But if you simply try to assimilate what Kṛṣṇa says then you’ll become perfect person. Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo'nyaj, jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. Then Kṛṣṇa says,

 

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ, kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

 

[“Out of countless souls, some may have reached the human form of life, and among many thousands of human beings, some endeavour to attain direct perception of the individual soul and the Supersoul; and among many thousands of such aspirants who have attained to seeing the soul and the Supersoul, only a few receive actual perception of Me, Śyāmasundara.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 7.3]

 

    Actually, we are born fools and rascals. We’re coming, evolution from the animal life. The Darwin theory says that we’re coming from monkeys. So far we have heard, that either monkeys, or cows, or lion. Human form of body is promoted, one who is coming through tama-gua, he comes from monkey, as Mr. Darwin. So, those who are coming in sattva-gua, they come from the cow. And those who were in raja-gua they come from the lion. Whatever it may be it is a fact that through evolutionary process the last birth must have been animal life. Pasaba kincala pani, thirty lākhs of species, forms of animal forms, then we get this human form of life. So actually when you’re born uncivilised, we have no knowledge, the same thing, āhāra, nidrā, bhayam. Why am I born, as the animals are interested, eating, sleeping, sex life, and defence? These are the animal propensities or necessities of life. But when, as we become gradually civilised, we take our birth in India especially. It is not so easy. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

 

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra [ janma sārthaka kari’ kara para-upakāra]

 

    [“One who has taken his birth as a human being in the land of India [Bhārata-varṣa] should make his life successful and work for the benefit of all other people.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, 9.41]

 

It is very rare. Don’t spoil your life imitating animals. It is a very valuable life to be one form of life in Bhārata-varṣa. We are practically seeing although India is so fallen, but still, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, hundreds and thousands of people come to hear. I’ve experienced in Bombay, Calcutta, and other places. By nature they’re inclined to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Unfortunately outward influence are curbing down this natural instinct of Bhārata-varṣa. It’s very, very degradable. We’re naturally God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by artificial means we are being cut down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, kaścid yatati siddhaye. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means making progress for perfection of life, siddhi, siddhaye means mukta, theoretically mukta. They’re called siddha. There is Siddhaloka, there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. All the inhabitants of that planet they are all mystic yogīs. They can fly from one planet to another without any instrument. Siddhaloka.

So every human being, especially the civilised man, can become siddha. Siddha means to understand his constitutional position; that is siddha. Because the animal does not know what is his constitutional position. He thinks that he is the body. But actually he’s not the body, he’s spirit soul. The human form of life, this consciousness, this ignorance can be removed and he can understand that ahaṁ-brahmāsmi, ‘I’m not this body, I’m spirit soul.’ And when he comes to the point of understanding that he’s not body, he’s soul; then he’s called brahma-bhūta. Before that, so long he’s in bodily concept of life, he’s jīva-bhūta. These are the differences. When you are in bodily concept of life you are called jīva-bhūta. Mamaivāṁśo,  jīva-bhūta.

The spirit soul is always part and parcel of God. That’s a fact....brahma, para-brahma, we are also brahma. It is a fact; so realising ahaṁ-brahmāsmi that is perfect. So nobody’s trying to understand. Especially in Bhārata-varṣa this culture was very strong. Although there are different parties, different Ācāryas, but their only purpose is self realisation. Either you follow Śaṅkarācārya, or Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, many Ācāryas, we may differ in our final conclusion whether the ultimate truth is personal or impersonal. That is not very important thing. But all of them are trying for the realisation of the self, siddhi. The yogīs, the jñānīs, the bhaktas, even the karmis, they are also trying to become siddha. But the difference between the bhaktas...

 

End of 73.03.00.B

 

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Start of 73.06.27.A

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

&

His Divine Grace Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...three in America.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Three in America, another three in Europe.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Three in Europe; six.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One in India.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: India, one?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: India one, seven.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Africa one.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: One.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eight. And one Australia, New Zealand. And one Canada...South America.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: South America ________ [?]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Argentina. And Japan, which includes now Western United States, Ha, ha, ha, including Hawaii and Japan. Russia there is big _____________ [?] I’ve got a student there. And they’re very much strict about religious things. When I went to Moscow...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: A reaction will come.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The reaction has already come. They do not...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sure to come; action reaction.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So they found one of my Bhagavad-gītā in the Immigration so immediately called police. Then he examined and he allowed, “All right, it is all right.” But they’re not a very happy country, as advertised.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What is happiness? God is happiness.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But materially they’re poor.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bhagavad-gītā, 8.9]. So, they’re poor in intelligence, it is sattvic intelligence, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, so devoid of higher kind of intelligence. Scientific fineness, that is also in the jurisdiction of matter. And more subtle and subtler knowledge is possible.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now we are presenting through two of my scientific students, Doctors of Chemistry – the source of matter is spirit. This is our theory. Generally they believe that life comes from matter.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Life comes from matter.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But we are presenting, “No. Matter comes from matter.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Apparently. But this is more appropriate. This is Vedānta.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Apparently. Yes. Janmādy asya yato [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 1.1.1]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I say that just as eczema in the healthy body, this material world is an eczema in the healthy body.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Material atmosphere means diseased condition.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Diseased condition, very negligent diseased condition, forming very negligent part of the whole. This material world where creation and dissolution is compulsory, that is a negligent portion of the real universe.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ekāṁśa.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Otherwise if a major portion of a body is bad, then that cannot stand. So the major portion of the universe must be healthy, wholesome one, and the negligent part is a diseased portion. That is the world where the misery lives.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One fourth part.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The possession of Satan. That is under possession of Satan. Satan means vikṛta jñāna, that is misunderstanding.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Perverted.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Misunderstanding is perverted understanding is Satan. Understanding is there, but it is perverted.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: De ātma buddhi. [Bhagavad-gītā, 18.37]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: De ātma buddhi. Rather, the enjoying principle.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Sense gratification.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The enjoying mood; that is the basis of this. And the mood of renunciation, that is a buffer state, that is nothing. And the real life is a life of self dedication and service. And service not of any part, or service not for any part which is like me. But for the whole, for the Divinity; as Kṛṣṇa says in Gītā:

 

athavā bahunaitena, kiṁ jñātena tavārjjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat

 

[“But Arjuna, what is the need of your understanding this elaborate knowledge of My almighty grandeur? By My fractional expansion as the Supreme Soul of material nature, Mahā-Viṣṇu (Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu), I remain supporting this entire universe of moving and stationary beings.”]

[Bhagavad-gītā, 10.42]

 

    Who lies, Whose bed is Infinite. Śeṣa-Nāga, Ananta, Infinite gathered together, and though He seems to have a figure, but that sort of figure which can contain many number of Infinite of our conception. Kṛṣṇa is a figure talking with Arjuna, a limited figure, but Viśvarūpa emerged from Him, how? A big Viśvarūpa emerged from a limited figure; so such limited figure He has got.

    Vṛndāvana has been described as only thirty two miles, but Paravyoma which is to be understood as Vaikuṇṭha means infinite, many of the Paravyomas are accommodated there within that thirty two miles area, square mile area, or something like that. We must be conversant with that sort of understanding.

    Any number of length of rope coming but always only two fingers less. Then another big rope added and again that two fingers less. This is all categorical principle we are to be acquainted with, then we shall go to read Bhāgavatam or...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: _____________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: _______________ [?] How is it possible? ag vigetar ananta svarup [?]

In one figure He accommodates numberless figures, ag vigetar ananta svarup [?]

But all these appear to be real and it will be shown to them who have got real śraddhā. Śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ loka, the world of faith, and that is substantial, not imaginary. What we say to be concrete, that will be reduced to ashes and imaginary, it will evaporate. Both the material scientists as well as the ṛṣis, that this will evaporate one day, the Sun, Moon, everything, this will evaporate. But that subtle thing stands forever, śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ loka. The experience of the region of faith stands forever. And the world of experience is evaporating every second, being transformed, and dying every moment, every second dying. What is told to us to be the reality; that means dying every second, that sort of reality is given to us by the great apostles of the present universe, big scientists and big leaders of the knowledge world.

    In India there is a saying, that once a big mountain, he or she, expressed that she will produce a child __________________ She has got pain, just before producing child. Then the people thought, “Oh. What a big child must come. When the big mountain, she feels labour pain, then a big child must come.” At last it was seen that a mouse was produced. So the big giants of the present world, so-called leaders of the scholastic world, they’re producing like a mouse. That is a dying substance, in this form or that form.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [Chewing that which has already been chewed]. [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 7.5.30]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is sure deception, a deception to the challenge to the real thinkers. They should abhorrently throw it out at once. This is in the boundary of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bhagavad-gītā, 13.9], throw it off.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So I try to impress upon them this fact, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness Movement is a challenge for this deception. They’re simply deceiving.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All sorts of deception.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Even Vaikuṇṭha, paravyoma bhedi bhedi [C-c, Madhya-līlā, 19.153-4 ?]

Even if the selfish sort of calculation comes between the servitor and the object of service, then also it throws us down. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that sort of calculation is also absent. Where there is love there cannot be any calculation. It is autonomous, anurāga, can’t but do. No sort of calculation of any benefit. The calculation disturbs autonomy.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: _________________________________________ [?] About our temple contemplation, it will be almost a skyscraper building, with four divisions ______________________ [?]

So how will it be depicted ______________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It has already been described by Sanātana Goswāmī in Bṛhat-Bhāgavatāmṛta, after crossing Brahmaloka.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There is Maheśa dhāma, in between.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: As devotee, Śiva as devotee.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is there. Śiva’s devotional prayer is there, in fourth canto, about the four sons. What are their names?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Devī dhāma up to Virajā, nirviśeṣa, the last conception, or the highest conception of Devī dhāma is a bodily conception of Virajā, prakṛti ends there.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kāraṇārṇava.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Kāraṇārṇava; then begins Brahmaloka, the halo of the spiritual world.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Effulgence. Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Spiritual world. And that is also somewhat nirviśeṣa. And then after crossing there, Śiva is on the other higher side, as well as he’s on the lower side – that is differentiation on two sides is Śiva. This side also master of Devī, and this side also he’s searching after something, and when the diferentiative world ends in Brahmaloka, there also the Śiva as devotee, and this side Śiva is a yogī, he’s searching after. And there, he’s going to meet Nārāyaṇa to pay his respect.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Both sides he’s a devotee.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. This side he’s not such a devotee but that is a pure devotee on the other side, Vaikuṇṭha.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Sadāśiva.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sadāśiva, Mahā-Viṣṇu, on the other side, he’s a devotee. Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,12.13.16] [also in the purport of ŚrīBrahma-saṁhitā’s verse 45]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Mahā-Viṣṇu and Sadāśiva the same.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Same.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Advaita Ācārya.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Advaita Ācārya, on the other side, and this side sometimes revolting. The other day I told a gentleman that Śiva is rather the leader of the opposition party. Ha, ha.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ha, ha. Yes ____________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ___________ In many a place, many demons are encouraged by him we find.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But when Pracetāsas they met Śiva...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That is that Śiva, devotee Śiva. Markandeya also in Bhāgavatam, Markandeya worships Śiva but that is the devotee Śiva. It is clearly mentioned in Bhāgavatam Markandeya is worshipping Śiva but that Śiva is the pure devotee.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Pracetāsas and Śiva met in this material world or in the spiritual world? They met in the material world.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I can’t remember that particularly. But Śiva this side also Śiva and nirviśeṣa, on the lower side of the nirviśeṣa is also Śiva, and the higher side of the nirviśeṣa is also Śiva. Then Nārāyaṇa.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Here he’s Bhūtanātha, leader of the atheistic classes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Atheistic class. And his paraphernalia is Nandi, Varengi, bhūta, preta. And his eldest son is Vinayaka (?) the leader of the misguided Binayaka? Gaṇeśa, and not proper nayaka, vikṛta nayaka. Vinayaka nikapa mordhava su prabhu [?]

That are protected by Kṛṣṇa and they throw their...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But in Brahma-saṁhitā [verse 50] Gaṇeśa is described vighnānasya.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vighnānasya but with the help of Nṛsiṁhadeva on his kumbha.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, ha, ha, ha, Oh yes, I see, on his head. Yat-pāda-pallava-yugaṁ vinidhāya.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Only with the help of His lotus feet he’s able to – otherwise he’s vinayaka.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, ha, ha. Gaṇeśa.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: __________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Misleader.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Misleader. Misguider, Gaṇeśa, his eldest son, and he gives his support, Śiva. Just as C.R. Das he encouraged Subash Bosh and other members of ________________ Party, but he himself worked a little common person.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. So, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, how do you like this place?

 

Satsvarūpa Mahārāja: Very transcendental.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa. ___________________________ Where is Srūtakṛti?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Here is Srūtakṛti.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: His health, you are to arrange what will be...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Srūtakṛti wants to serve you, provided you go with us to U.S.A. Ha, ha, ha.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ha, ha, ha, ha.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He says, “If Mahārāja goes with us then I shall take care of him.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In another life, ha, ha, it may be possible.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, ha, ha.

 

[Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja and Śrīla Prabhupāda now speak Bengali (?),

 and laugh a lot, for just over six and a half minutes.]

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja:

 

ūrdhva-mūlam adhaḥ-śākham, aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyāyam

chandāṁsi yasya parṇāni, yas taṁ veda sa veda-vit

 

    [“The holy scriptures proclaim that this material world is like an unchangeable Banyan tree with its roots facing upwards and its branches down, known as an Aśvattha (transitory) tree. Its nutriments are the Vedic aphorisms, which are represented by its leaves. Whoever knows this tree in this way is a genuine knower of the Vedas.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 15.1]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Fifteenth Chapter.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The cause of this world is connected with the upper world, yas taṁ veda sa veda-vit.

[More Bengali (?) for about three minutes]

 

    Independent of matter, in clear introspection, the spirit can see spirit, can feel spirit; but matter cannot feel matter. _________________ The matter presupposes spirit. Whatever you will ascribe to a fossil, it presupposes consciousness. This is his colour, this is tyāga, this is this, this is this, that means...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Consciousness studying fossil.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Consciousness in a degraded state sees fossil.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Consciousness in śraddhā, tarottama is there, śraddhā; himself, then superior soul...

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And the super-most.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...and in the ultimate reality, Kṛṣṇa, all-love, all-good, all-beauty; that realm. Individual consciousness can live in, and move in, in the land of beautiful, in the land of divine love. Anyone having any conception of beauty and love, which is the prime cause of the universe, he cannot like anything in this world than that. Raso 'py asya, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate.

 

[viṣayā vinivartante, nirāhārasya dehinaḥ

rasa-varjaṁ raso 'py asya, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate]

 

    [“Although the person of gross corporeal consciousness may avoid sense objects by external renunciation, his eagerness for sense enjoyment remains within. However, inner attachment to sense objects is spontaneously denounced by the person of properly adjusted intelligence, due to his having had a glimpse of the all-attractive beauty of the Supreme Truth.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 2.59]

 

    All his charm has vanished as soon as that type of rasa, that rasa of that quality has got a little awakening in his heart. Everything;

 

yad-anucarita-līlā-karṇa-pīyūṣa-vipruṭ-, sakṛd-adana-vidhūta-dvandva-dharmāvinaṣṭāḥ

sapadi gṛha-kuṭumbaṁ dīnam utsṛjya dīnā, bahava iha vihaṅgā bhikṣu-caryāṁ caranti

 

[“The transcendental līlā of Śrī Kṛṣṇa is great nectar for the ears. Those who relish just a single drop of that nectar even once have their attachment to material duality totally ruined. Many such persons have immediately given up their futile homes and families and have come to Vṛndāvana like a free bird out of a cage. Becoming totally detached from their material life, those devotees have taken up the path of renunciation and have accepted alms just to maintain their lives on this plane. In this way they continue to search for Him, the all fulfilment of life.”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.47.18]

    [Bhakti Nandan Svāmī’s, Śrī Bhakti Rakṣaka Bhajana Madhuri, p 26-7]

 

Yad-anucarita-līlā-karṇa-pīyūṣa-vipruṭ. A drop of nectar of Your pastimes, līlā, when it has entered any ear, then all things drawn into ashes to him. Yad-anucarita-līlā-karṇa-pīyūṣa-vipruṭ, sakṛd-adana-vidhūta-dvandva-dharmāvinaṣṭāḥ. He’s independent of dvandva dharma, that is rāga-dveṣa or this conjugal life, both. A permanent partner in conjugal life, that seems to be redundant to him, without Kṛṣṇa. So dvandva dharma as well as – dvandva dharma means rāgaand dveṣa, all vanished, dvandva-dharmāvinaṣṭāḥ. Sapadi gṛha-kuṭumbaṁ. And what is the after effect? Very soon he leaves everything, dīnam utsṛjya dīnā, he himself poses himself to be a very poor one and leaves his present paraphernalia, and they also, without him, think themselves very poorer. In this way, bahava iha vihaṅgā bhikṣu-caryāṁ caranti, just as a bird from this tree to that tree moving, he also in quest of Kṛṣṇa from here to there, there to here, in this way, with Kṛṣṇa at heart. And sometimes they come in a particular stage to organise for the jīva to help them to go to that realm.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So, what is your advice, shall I fly like young or retire? Ha, ha.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ha, ha, ha. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ _______________________________

___________________________ yukta-vairāgya ________________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Speaks Bengali (?) for about twenty seconds)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: As much as you can accommodate yourself for them you may do.

 

(Śrīla Prabhupāda and Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja speak Bengali (?) for about two minutes,

with the occasional English sentence)

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One intelligent boy, you have heard his name, George Harrison, he’s one of the - or the greatest - musicians at the present moment of the world. I think so. Yes?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: George Harrison, so he’s becoming, he’s very intelligent, so he’s becoming interested. And recently he has given us a house in London which is fifty five lākhs, which is worth two hundred thousand pounds. Two hundred thousand pounds ordinarily it is forty lākhs, and in the market value because the pound is selling in India thirty twenty eight – at least twenty five, in that way...

 

(Bengali spoken for just over five minutes)

 

    We are solely depending on our books.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ___________________________________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: _________________________________________________________________ [?]

_________________________________________________________________________________ [?]

 

    Bhaktivedanta Book Fund Account. Five thousand dollars he takes advance, deposit, and take my orders. So I gave him order - books worth fifty two thousand dollars, advancing five thousand. And they gradually supplied to India, and from U.S.A we gradually, little by little we paid, so that became the asset of books. And I advised them that you go and present these books to respectable gentlemen to become a member, and they’ll become. And actually that plan became successful. Now the same members, they’ve not only paid eleven hundred, now some of them they’re paying eleven thousand. Recently one gentleman belonging to the Bila(?) family, they came to our Calcutta centre – in how many motor cars they came?

 

Devotee: Seventeen.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Seventeen motor cars, the whole family, and after seeing the Deity they presented a cheque for eleven thousand rupees. So by Kṛṣṇa’s grace money is coming. There is no scarcity, and they’re spending here in Māyāpur. So with that five thousand dollars, whatever our asset is in Indian now, that is from five thousand.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So you have proved also that capital is on the other world, capital is also...

 

End of 73.06.27.A

 

********

 

Start of 77.00.00

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

&

His Divine Grace Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmī Mahārāja

 

    A devotee [Bhakti Caru Swāmī ?] reads a transcript of a discussion between Śrīla Prabhupāda and Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārājaat Navadwīpa in 1976

........

    This is a discussion between Śrīla Prabhupāda and Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja at Navadwīpa in 1976.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The essential principle of niṣkiñcana bhakti is surrender, otherwise one will not be able to get to know the substance. Whatever you are seeing, from externally, by means of your intelligence, that is not going to help you to become acquainted with the real substance.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That Dr. Radhakrishna (one time President of India) was victimised by western philosophy. He had no understanding of Indian philosophy.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: No matter up to what extent they go, ultimately they end up becoming the worshipper of the hell. They think that they will become God. The geocentric philosophy requires heliocentric. According to Śrīla Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura] they’re not heliocentric, they’re geocentric. Their limit is only up to their senses, beyond that they don’t have any understanding whatsoever. Ultimately their goal is Brahmaloka. Brahmaloka is the ultimate goal of these people and beyond that they don’t have any knowledge. The para-bhakti in brahma-bhūta platform – that when one is situated in the Brahman platform, the transcendental platform – there the pure devotional service begins, they don’t have any understanding about that.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But that Radhakrishna inwardly he was afraid. I used to visit him from time to time. He used to be quite intimate with me. He used to say, “Please pray to God about me.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Where did he say that?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Where he used to stay in Delhi. He once wrote to me also. “After I retire I shall join your movement.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sometimes the false prestige spoils everything.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He used to have a lot of respect for me. Once he asked, “Are you writing everything in English?” So I asked him, ‘What do you do?’ and he smiled.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When he used to teach in Calcutta University Bon Mahārāja used to go to him and once he took me with him and before that once he brought him to Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura]. So the second time when he went to invite him I went with Bon Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Personally he was a fine gentleman; a brāhmaṇa, very cultured; but a māyāvādī. He is dead now.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. But Raja Gopāl Acari (another political leader of India) was a Vaiṣṇava.

 

Certain devotees: (to Prabhupāda) Śrīla Prabhupāda has given you a lot of mercy.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That’s all due to your blessings. I don’t know for how long I’ll be able to carry on so I came to see Śrīdhara Mahārāja.

 

Devotee: If you all go away then the world will become dark.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It is so wonderful that the will of the Lord becomes manifest through somebody.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I very much want Mahārāja that you come and stay at Māyāpur. Because Prabhupāda always desired that you preach. He told me quite a few times, “Why don’t you pull him out?” (Both Prabhupāda and Śrīdhara Mahārāja laugh.) You know I also tried to some extent before. But somehow or other it did not work out. Now why don’t you come and stay at Māyāpur?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: At last Prabhupāda told me that, “You are an ease lover.” (Laughter) “The qualifications that you have…”

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. That’s true. He told me also that, “He’s such a qualified person; one of the finest preachers.” I want to take you everywhere. At least the place we have in Māyāpur, people are coming from all over the world. Why don’t you come and stay there? What is your objection to staying in Māyāpur? If you just agree then whatever kind of building you want I will arrange it for you. They’re trying to build a house for me, so both of us can stay there regardless and whenever you want you can come here.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. As long as I am alive to fulfil Prabhupāda’s desire.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is my earnest desire. Since you could not go around the world and preach at least stay there and people will come to you. I shall make that arrangement. If you stay then it will be very helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone but there is none; there is no one that I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly.

 

One lady devotee: If he stays in Māyāpur then all kinds of people will get to hear from him.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. That’s right.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. People from all kinds of cultural backgrounds will come there.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. They are already coming. And in that house I’ll make arrangements for a lift from here so that you don’t have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down. You don’t even have to move upstairs yourself. I’ll make arrangements for cars and lift. Jayapataka is telling that he will build a house for me so both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I’m just travelling around so if you are there then they can get some guidance. So Mahārāja please give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Well I’ll think it over and let you know.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So let me make this arrangement Mahārāja. That Planetarium [The Temple of Vedic Planetarium] also will be built under your directions. My idea is to combine the Indian culture and the American money – the lame man and blind man policy. I tell them also that this will be very beneficial for the world. Indian culture and varṇāśrama. Prabhupāda’s [Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura’s] desire was to establish the varṇāśrama dharma. So we have to do that, we have to establish our varṇāśrama college. Let the people from all over the world come and learn about varṇāśrama.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The effort that you’re making to acquire the land in Māyāpur, has that been successful?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. Nothing has happened as yet. But we’re buying the land. How far can you hassle with the government? Of course they haven’t yet said either yes or no. But we’re buying the land now. They demand a very exorbitant rate, but what to do? We are buying; whenever someone is selling his land we are buying. But when they see the Americans they want a price four times more, but what to do? I feel, let these poor people also have something. They’re stealing, but what to do? I feel, let them also have something. Every month I bring one million rupees to this country and spend it for our development work; about seventy-eighty thousand dollars.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So this is a big income for Indira Gandhi.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That’s what I say. With much difficulty I translate the books at night and they print it and sell it and then send seventy-eighty thousand dollars every month to me here. Is India benefiting out of this or losing out of this? But they’re blaming them as CIA’s. Tīrtha Mahārāja used to say: “American government has given Swāmīji two million dollars.” As if the American government could not get anything better to do or any better person to give the money. For making them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance they will give me the money, two million dollars.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: A man from the Central Intelligence Department took initiation from me. He was asking me. I told him these are nothing but rumours. I know Swāmī Mahārāja since a long, long time. I know him very well and this movement is nothing but a purely spiritual movement. Actually what they’re thinking is that previously they used to send the missionaries, then they used to send the merchants, and then the army used to come and take over, but those days are no more. Christianity has become useless now; not at all effective. Through such a faith of universal religion if a net could be cast throughout the world that can be utilised in future.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. His study has been quite proper. This is what our plan is. I tell them that you work in this direction and in future everyone will recognise this movement. American government is already telling that this movement is spreading like an epidemic. (To some of his disciples Prabhupāda asked), “Who said this?”

 

Satsvarūpa Mahārāja: Yes. One Congressman had said that.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who said this?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One American Congressman from the Senate. He said that in a TV. “Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is expanding like epidemic. And if we allow them to go on like this then one day they’ll capture the government, within ten years.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All the governments are becoming alarmed. (Laughter) Even this government. If they can conquer the mass and get them to support them.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fear of everybody.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ultimately it may become the world state religion.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Automatically that will become. That is the idea I have.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: America was being accused of trying to make one state world. That let there be just one state then there won’t be any war. If the whole world is made into one state then there won’t be any war.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I replied to that: “You may make a one state world. But if you make the populace into dogs then they won’t be any use. They’ll just keep barking. You have to make them into human beings.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. They’ll start fighting with each other.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Right. That is their nature to fight. So first of all you have to make them human beings. That is the brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.

 

[brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām]

 

[“The spotlessly pure-hearted and self-satisfied soul who has attained to his conscious divine nature neither grieves nor craves for anything. Seeing all beings equally (in the conception of My supreme energy), he gradually achieves supreme devotion (prema-bhakti) unto Me.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 18.54]

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: When they come to that stage then it will be useful. Otherwise there’s no hope. It is not impossible to happen.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. When there’s a common centre then everybody can unite. Everybody can be harmonised. That has to be real. If it is fictitious then there won’t be any achievement.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I’m hearing that the present American President, President Carter, he has some such plan and he is discussing with Indira Gandhi. He is consulting with Indira Gandhi quite intimately.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. They’re accepting a broad policy. What I hear from the radios and newspapers it seems that their policy is becoming much more broader than before.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Besides that they don’t have any other way. Otherwise they cannot achieve what they’re actually wanting, the peace through the United Nations. That cannot be achieved.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. Nothing less than Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be able to give them that desired peace. Nowhere else they’ll find it.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

 

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ, sarva-loka-maheśvaram

[suhṛdaṁ sarvva-bhūtānāṁ, jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati]

 

    [“I am the enjoyer of the results of sacrifice performed by the fruit-hunter, as well as the results of austerity performed by the liberation-seeker - I am their only worshippable object; I am Nārāyaṇa, the indwelling monitor of all planes of life, and the Supreme Worshippable Personality who awards liberation. And I am the well-wisher of all - I am Kṛṣṇa, the devotee’s most adorable friend. The soul who thus knows My true identity attains the ecstasy of knowing his own original divine identity.”]

[Bhagavad-gītā, 5.29]

 

    So that’s what I was telling that stop fighting and making all those legal suits then so nicely the preaching can be done in India, in every village, every town. One disadvantage with these people is the language but still, you must have heard, wherever they’re going they are getting very good reception. My Geer-gan, first I printed five thousand, then ten thousand, then thirty thousand. But this time we’re printing one hundred thousand. And they’re selling very nicely. In Bengali we’re printing various books, Geer-gan, Bhāgavani-kathā, Bhāgavat-darśana. In Hindi also we’re selling many books like in Kumbha-mela we sold many, many books.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. This is what Kṛṣṇa consciousness is and people will naturally wonder what is there in it that captured the whole world in just ten years.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now they’re opposing to it that this is a great credit.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. That’s why the governments are organising the oppositions.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. They’re clearly mentioning that if they get a chance to expand unrestrictedly then in ten years time they’ll capture the governments.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. If the mass is converted and their votes can be acquired then the government will be captured.

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. And these are all young men. The young class of people have accepted it. Dr Stillson Judah has already predicted that this movement will not be destroyed, because this has entered into the bones and marrows.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who is he? Where is he from?

 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He’s an American; a Professor in the Berkeley University.

 

End of 77.00.00

 

********

 

Start of 78.03. _ . A [GBC]

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

First two meetings with GBC  ~  March 1978 [Portions printed in Śrī Guru & His Grace]

 

    [Known present GBC members: Tamal Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, Jayapataka Mahārāja, Jayatīrtha Mahārāja, Harikeśa Mahārāja, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, Jayadvaita Mahārāja, and others]

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: After the departure of our beloved spiritual master we came to offer our respects to you as well as to hear your esteemed upadeśa on certain matters; if you’d be kind enough.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It is mentioned in the śāstra with an example. The Gurudeva; śiṣya is like a lotus, and Gurudeva the water around. Just as in a pond or in a lake the Gurudeva’s position is like water, and Kṛṣṇa is like sun. As long as the lotus is floating in the water, sun will please the lotus. But if water vanishes, that very sun will burn the lotus. Do you follow? This sort of example is given in śāstra. I can’t exactly remember the Sanskrit verse but such example is there. The water around the lotus; without water, the sun, Kṛṣṇa, will burn. Without the help of Guru the disciple is nowhere. And [Raghunātha]Dāsa Goswāmī Prabhu, the prayojana Ācārya of the whole Gauḍīya philosophy, spiritual system, he has also remarked: vyāghra-tuṇḍāyate kuṇḍaṁ, girīndro 'jagarāyate.

 

[śūnyāyate mahā-goṣṭhaṁ, girīndro 'jagarāyate / vyāghra-tuṇḍāyate kuṇḍaṁ, jīvātu-rahitasya me]

 

     [“Now that I no longer have the sustainer of my life, the land of Vraja has become empty and desolate, Govardhana Hill has become like a great python, and Rādhā-kuṇḍa has become like the gaping mouth of a ferocious tiger.”] [Śrī Prārthanāśraya-caturdaśaka, Fourteen Prayers For Shelter, 11]

 

    “After the demise, departure of Gurudeva, Rūpa, Sanātana, the Govardhana Giri which is the representation of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself is, it seems to me just like a big python, jagar, is coming to devour me. And Rādhā-kuṇḍa, the holiest place of the divinity of the Gauḍīya sampradāya, is like tiger’s mouth is coming to devour me, for the separation of Gurudeva. So much excitement they’re giving to me about this absence of my Gurudeva, my dearest and my highest spiritual guardian, who has the most intense affection for me, to nurture me for spiritual purpose, he’s not here. How can I tolerate? My everything is gone; all vanishes with his departure.”

 

    Such sort of deep, sense of separation will come, and the...

    Where is Bhāvānanda? Is he here?

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: He couldn’t come today.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He told here the other day in his lecture, “Union in separation is the highest realisation.” I was very happy to hear from his lips that union in separation, vipralambha. Vipralambha, that is also the highest kind of attainment, vipralambha. Without vipralambha nothing else can come to us. Kṛṣṇa and the opposite thing - that is antithesis; that will come as vipralambha, viraha, Kṛṣṇa viraha, Kṛṣṇa viram Kṛṣṇa viraha, and no reaction. Without viram there cannot be any other reaction to that, without that separation, viraha, vipralambha. So vipralambha is the most spacious, most spacious thing pertaining to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And we can have the grace of that plane; if in forgetfulness also if there is Kṛṣṇa connection then we are saved, we are safe. In the forgetfulness also we shall have the Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the background and nothing else. No māyā. The safest position, fearless position - stand. So vipralambha, in vipralambha of Gurudeva, in separation to Gurudeva, if we can stand then: vidyavatam bhagavate pariksad, I have passed the highest stage, test. This announcement I have, if in separation also I can retain the memory of Śrī Gurudeva, Śrī Kṛṣṇa.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Mahārāja, when our Śrīla Prabhupāda left then he has given instruction that for initiating and for carrying on the sampradāya there will be eleven. In the beginning he appointed eleven devotees, his disciples, to be initiating spiritual masters, or to accept disciples. And in the future that number would also be able to be increased. So we wanted to take your advice on some points as to various details of how these initiating spiritual masters should deal with certain questions; if we could ask questions to you then?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. You may ask.

 

Devotee: He’s given explicit desires, but he told us on other technical points and other matters of the philosophy, if there was question, we should approach you. He said that during his, when he was very ill, he had appointed eleven ṛtviks and he said that after he disappears that these ṛtviks would continue as initiating spiritual masters and that they could be increased later. That would be decided by the GBC, or Governing Body Commission. The first question was, we wondered that, some of the disciples had been initiated by Bhaktivedānta Swāmī Mahārāja and, but um, this Hari Nāma, so they’ll be taking dīkṣā or, from one of his disciples?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: So they wondered what is their relationship in this type of situation with each of the spiritual masters? Those who are initiated by our Śrīla Prabhupāda with Hari Nāma, then when they approach one of these eleven and take second initiation, then they’d like to know what is the, who is the Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Amongst these eleven, a disciple he may like one first, or third, or fourth, or fifth, how to solve that?

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja: That we must solve.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: A person...

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: He can take who he likes. He may take whichever one he wants.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, according to his śraddhā.

 

Devotee: His faith.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: According to his śraddhā. A newcomer should be given some time; who’ll come to be initiated, he should be given some time for, a fair period of time to hear from different persons, and then the śraddhā, the faith...

 

Devotee: Will be awakened.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...will be considered, that to whom he will submit. Do you follow?

 

Devotees: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: After śravaṇathen varaṇa; five stages there are. First, to hear, first stage is to hear. And second stage is to, that that is varaṇa, to, acceptance, by the Guru and the śiṣya; both the preceptor and the disciple. That is the second stage, varaṇa-daśā. Then the sādhana-daśā, the attempt for realisation will begin. First stage to hear, open field, fair field, to hear, and then the connection should come between Guru and śiṣya, the preceptor and disciple; from both sides. Then that should be better. Śravaṇa-daśā then varaṇa-daśā, then sādhana-daśā, āpana-daśā, prapanna-daśā - five stages in sādhana, in spiritual life.

 

Devotee: At which stage does dīkṣā come?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prapanna-daśā. Last. First śravaṇa...

 

Devotee: Hearing.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Śravaṇa, to hear, to listen to. And then varaṇa, both, preceptor accepts the śiṣya...

 

Devotee: The Hari Nāma stage.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But Hari Nāma is the main thing and dīkṣā only to help Hari Nāma. It is mentioned in Jīva Goswāmī’s writings that Hari Nāma dīkṣā is the main thing and the pañcarātrika dīkṣā it is bhagavati dīkṣā - Hari Nāma dīkṣā means bhagavati dīkṣā - and the pañcarātrika dīkṣā is mantram and that only to help Hari Nāma. That one can reach to the siddhi of Hari Nāma, this mantra will help. Mantra’s jurisdiction up to salvation, liberation, and after liberation Hari Nāma can’t... Hari Nāma’s circle is a greater circle, and dīkṣā is a smaller circle within the Hari Nāma circle. Hari Nāma reaches to the lowest and highest. And dīkṣā in the middle point it maybe mid circle that may help Hari Nāma.

Muktafal Hari Nāma, not mantra _______ trayateti mantra, this mental, which will remove us from mental speculation, that is mantram; this manodharma mantra, that is, the worldly mind should be, we should get relief from the worldly mindedness by mantram. That Hari Nāma is a natural thing, it reaches to the lowest and it goes to the highest; Hari Nāma.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So those who have received Hari Nāma from Bhaktivedānta Swāmī then they’re his disciples?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: They’ll take help, his disciple mainly, and they’ll take help from the dīkṣā Guru. Dīkṣā Guru, because they’re in the sādhana, on the way to the end, so they’ll take the help of this mantra Guru. Nāma Guru, mantra Guru; Nāma Guru is Bhaktivedānta Swāmī and when he’ll take mantram from any of his disciples he will be his mantra Guru.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So they’ll offer respect to both? The disciple will offer respect to both, Nāma Guru and mantra Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mantra Guru. Then there is also sannyāsa Guru. sannyāsa Guru is also in a stage, sannyāsa or bābājī stage; that is also Guru. One in many forms; śikṣā Guru:

atamat ta mantra gurūn śikṣā gurūn ________________________ [?]

Vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta… Tamal Kṛṣṇa was saying the other day, vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca. Śrī-gurūn, plural, vaiṣṇavāṁś ca, one and the same - all.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: What is the difference between śikṣā Guru and dīkṣā Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Dīkṣā Guru…

 

śikṣā-guruke ta’ jāni kṛṣṇera svarūpa [antaryāmī, bhakta-śreṣṭha, — ei dui rūpa]

 

[“One should know the instructing spiritual master to be the Personality of Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa manifests Himself as the Supersoul and as the greatest devotee of the Lord.”]

[Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, 1.47]

 

Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śikṣā Guru, both extension of Kṛṣṇa, Guru is Kṛṣṇa.

 

ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān, [nāvamanyeta karhicit / na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ]

 

[“One should know the Ācārya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.”]

[Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, 1.46]  &  [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.17.27]

 

    The Kṛṣṇa has come there to liberate me in different appearances, representations. He’s coming, Kṛṣṇa’s coming; oneness in variegated positions.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Who is qualified to be a śikṣā Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Whoever sincerely will help me to go towards Kṛṣṇa, he’s śikṣā Guru. Vaiṣṇava also śikṣā Guru, Vaiṣṇava’s are śikṣā Guru. Who will come in my connection and will help me to go towards – he’s śikṣā Guru. Vartma-pradarśaka, he’s vartma-pradarśaka Guru, śikṣā Guru, mantra Guru, Nāma Guru, then sannyāsa Guru.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: What is the relationship between a sannyāsī and his sannyāsa Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That is taṭasthā. Whom I am much indebted for my spiritual progress, who will help me most in my spiritual progress, there we shall find the main Guru. Otherwise through whom the maximum grace will come to me to take me towards the Supreme Entity? He is the supreme Guru.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: What is their relationship - of sannyāsī and his sannyāsa Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Guru is...

 

Devotee: Just like a śikṣā Guru.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: First Guru, vartma-pradarśaka Guru is the first Guru, who shows the way. He may leave, otherwise the mantra Guru, the Nāma Guru, if I am accepted by any Nāma Guru then as long as the Nāma Guru is present I am getting only one Guru. And after his departure if sannyāsī Guru or mantra Guru comes then I shall offer all my regards to him, seeing the representative of the previous Guru. Do you follow?

 

Devotees: Yes.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: In the presence of...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Only vartma-pradarśaka may be present before the real Guru. And other Gurus cannot be present, the Nāma Guru or dīkṣā Guru, that will be one and same.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Whoever the Nāma Guru is he should also consequently be...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If Nāma Guru is living then he should be mantra Guru, he should be sannyāsa Guru – everything. And the ṛtviks are but vartma-pradarśaka Guru. When he was living he appointed so many ṛtviks, representatives, really they’re vartma-pradarśaka. Do you follow?

 

Devotees: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vartma-pradarśaka, that way showing, indicating the way.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: At which stage is the karma accepted by the Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When Guru first accepts the disciple then he will take the charge. Dīkṣā, bhagavati dīkṣā is Nāma dīkṣā, a pañcarātrika dīkṣā, mantra dīkṣā. At the time of dīkṣā initiation the Guru accepts him as he is, accepts him, the charge, to wash away the sins by his instructions.

Santevas saucindate mana basangam itibi [?]

 

Devotee: Hari Nāma?

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Both, the karma is accepted for both because he washes and cleans that time.

 

Devotee: At what time?

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Both initiations.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And the Guru, he also does the function by the help of his Guru. In this way the chain goes to Kṛṣṇa. But tada bhaktave, the medium is so transparent, no time can be, Guru paramparā it goes to Kṛṣṇa, in no time. So the Guru should be transparent. Who has wholly given himself to his own Guru, he’s Guru. The cent-per-cent servant of his Guru is Guru. This is the criterion. Who is wholly dedicated himself to Guru, he’s Guru. Whatever comes to him he already redresses to Guru, this transparent medium.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: And to whatever extent he’s not surrendered that much won’t go forward. (Bengali): jatadur samarpen haya nama tatakun ara [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Tatakun, coming to opaque, coming to transparent.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Partially.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Partially opaque and partially transparent, according to the transparency the Guru should be recognised in taṭasthā vicāra, vijayate taṭasthā tata, that will be clearly, taṭasthā, impartial judgement; and the relative and absolute, two sorts of judgement, absolute and relative.

    You see just as in the worldly representation. My mother most affectionate to me, his mother is most affectionate to him. But when the comparison will be drawn between two mothers, who is more affectionate, then another thing will come; relative and absolute calculation. Absolute calculation will get the super-most hand.

    That is to be done amongst you, both relative and absolute. Even a disciple he may commit error, disciple, when he’s going to accept his Guru he may be erroneous. It is the duty of the other Vaiṣṇavas to give him proper guidance. That should also come. In the consideration of absolute realisation these intricate points will arise.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: If the initiating Guru, the Nāma Guru, say he falls down, just as we hear Purī Mahārāja defended... say he falls down from the path by act of providence, then what should the disciple do?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He will take Name again and ... he may wait for some time because if he was sincere first, if he was a sincere disciple to his Guru first, now for some offences he’s neglected by his Guru for some time, he may be here and there, astray, led astray, then he may come again, after that offence.

 

Devotee: _________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: _____________________ [?]

 

guror apy avaliptasya, kāryākāryam ajānataḥ / utpatha-prathipannasya, parityāgo vidhīyate

 

    [“A Guru who is addicted to sensual pleasure and polluted by vice, who is ignorant and who has no power to discriminate between right and wrong, or who is not on the path of śuddha-bhakti  must be abandoned.”] [Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad]  &  [Mahābhārata, Udyoga-parva, 179.25]

 

In Mahābhārata, in Bhīṣma’s sayings, statement. Dvādaśa mahājana, one of dvādaśa mahājanas is Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma says to Paraśurāma, his astra Guru, astra Guru also Veda Guru, Atharva Veda. He says: guror apy avaliptasya, kāryākāryam ajānataḥ. Jīva Goswāmī Prabhu has taken this example.

 

guror apy avaliptasya, kāryākāryam ajānataḥ / utpatha-prathipannasya, parityāgo vidhīyate

 

    If he goes astray then he should be left. But there may be such instances, for some time by the inconceivable desire of Kṛṣṇa he may go astray and he may come back again, come back again. So the disciple may wait for some time. And this is very unfortunate for the disciple when he gets such - a test.

    In Hari-Nāma-cintāmaṇi, written by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you will find this elaborately dealt with, Hari-Nāma-cintāmaṇi, by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. There you will find this Guru tyāgachapter, how he has dealt with it carefully. Hari-Nāma-cintāmaṇi.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So in ISKCON there are many initiating Gurus...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Just as you see if a son disobeys his father then the father may be indifferent to the son. And for some time he may perform a will excluding him. But after some time he sees that the son comes back and be obedient then again he may correct his will. It may be like that.

 

api cet sudurācāro, bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ, samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

 

[“If even a person of extremely abominable practices, abandoning all non devotional pursuits of exploitation and renunciation engages in My exclusive and uninterrupted devotional service, he is venerable as a true saint because he has embraced the revolutionary plane of life.”]

[Bhagavad-gītā, 9.30]

 

So only very abruptly we should not deal with such things of unfortunate incidences. Wait and see. Generally, in his own zone he will perform dīkṣā, generally, but there should be special arrangements.

 

Śrīla Govinda Mahārāja: Aki mandire __________________________________________ [?]

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: There are five disciples in one temple, each with a different Guru of these eleven.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: _____________________________________________________ [?]

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Their picture is on the altar, a different thing, how these things would be managed?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then the arcak, who will perform the worship, he will worship the portrait of his own Guru as Guru and other Gurus as Vaiṣṇava, he will do, worship. Do you follow?

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Yes. And those pictures will be put on the far left side?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. They should be in a position that should be adjusted; they should be dealt with as Vaiṣṇava, after Guru pūjā. After his own Guru pūjā he’ll perform the Guru pūjā and others and then Vaiṣṇava pūjā. The other Gurus will come in the rank of Vaiṣṇavas.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So everyone’s picture could be there?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All the portraits should be there.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: And he’ll worship his own Guru as Guru…

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: One’s Guru as Guru and other Guru as śikṣā Guru, Vaiṣṇava śikṣā Guru.

 

Devotee: Then as Vaiṣṇavas.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The other Gurus as Vaiṣṇavas, śikṣā Gurus.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: But explain. In one temple, in one of our Maṭhs, the disciples may have many different Gurus. Just like there are eleven persons now, so say three of those eleven persons may be the Gurus of the disciples in that Maṭh, then how to know which picture to put on the...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So to get out of these difficulties the zonal preference should be maintained; to get out of all these difficulties as much as possible. But what I told that may be applicable easily in the branch Maṭhs, but in the main Maṭhs, like Māyāpur, Vṛndāvana, where all are interested keenly, the difficulty will arise there.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So there, there can be a group photo (group laughter).

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, group photo. But then also a difficulty will arise. His Guru’s photo, but everyone will like that his Guru must be in the centre.

 

Devotees: (group laughter)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This difficulty may arise.

 

Devotee: We can take eleven different group photos with each man in the centre.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But, you may start with your Gurudeva Swāmī Mahārāja in the centre and others as parṣada. You may start in this way now, then the time will help you gradually.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Thank you. Those Mandirs which Śrīla Prabhupāda...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prabhupāda in the centre – group photo, you manage in this way. Prabhupāda in the centre, and all others, those that will initiate, as parṣada, in this way.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: This is in the main branches or in the sub branches?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This may be maintained everywhere, everywhere. Synthesis will help you most.

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: As much as you can synthesis that will come to help you most.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: The disciples of our Guru’s picture shouldn’t be on the vyāsāsana? It was suggested that if that vyāsāsana was kept for Prabhupāda, a second vyāsāsana for others could be installed. This was one idea. We don’t know what is the proper etiquette.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That āsana should not be occupied by any of his disciples. Because the disciple who is initiating, the initiating disciple, the present Guru, he’ll also regard his Guru as superior to him. So he cannot occupy, naturally, that seat.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So similarly his picture should not occupy? __________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ________________________________________ [?] Just next to that seat, the present Guru’s seat should be given, should be placed.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Second seat?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Second seat should be given to the initiating Guru, present initiating Guru.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: On the original vyāsāsana, no picture...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That picture of Swāmī Mahārāja will be established there and just a little below, nearest, a seat will be for the present Ācārya. The disciple will say that he is giving honour to his own Guru. That will rather, impress the disciple that even the siddha Guru he’s also giving respect to his own Guru. In this way I must learn. The Guru should be always kept above.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: But in those temples which are now newly established by zonal Gurus, in that place then this would not be required. _____________________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: My opinion is, even in new organisations also the same thing will go on, because whatever you are creating that will give the impression, first impression with him from him. Let them all come within the same administration.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So when such disciple does Guru pūjā at these āsanas then he’ll first do the pūjā to his Guru, and then to his Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then his Guru, his Guru, the Deities, and afterwards all other Gurus or Vaiṣṇavas.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Vaiṣṇavas are after the Deities?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: After the Deities.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Which mantra?

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Just like if Jayapataka gives one of his new men initiation, how they... If Jayapataka Swāmī gives dīkṣā to somebody, how that śiṣya will offer his praṇāmas to Jayapataka, in what words, what mantra?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ordinary mantra of Guru pūjā, until and unless his disciples compile a special mantra for him. He’ll not go to arrange the mantra of praṇāmabut when his disciples will come and make a mantra, for Guru pūjā, they will do by that. Otherwise by general mantra.

 

oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmilitaṁ yena, tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

 

    [I offer my respectful obeisance unto my spiritual master, who has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance, with the torchlight of knowledge.]

 

    With this ordinary common mantra it will be performed. But when his disciples will come to such a stage as to compose a special mantra for him with his special characteristics mentioned there; then they will perform with that mantra.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: To say nama oviṣṇu-pāda __________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, that may be. The śiṣya will always say that; viṣṇu-pāda, the representative of Viṣṇu.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: That’s a general mantra.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He’s in the holy feet of Kṛṣṇa. Nama oviṣṇu-pāda common, and other things that śiṣya will see in Guru that should be mentioned; special characteristics. That may be general. Then viṣṇu-pādāyakṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya, and bhū-tale, it is all common. Then his name will come and special characteristics may be mentioned there. But that will come from the disciple. Sanskrit may be translated...

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: Should be pure Sanskrit?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Correct Sanskrit language, otherwise you see, one fine point. It arose in our position also. Our Gurudeva, he dictated in English some instructions once, but little faulty from the standpoint of correct English. Then our professor, one Professor (Baul?), disciple, he told that, “Dictionary should be corrected. What Gurudeva has said that is all right.”

 

Devotees: (Ha, Ha. Jaya!)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Follow? “Grammar and dictionary should be corrected, but what Guru says it is all right.” Then another, a little higher positioned disciple, he told that, “That is the lowest class disciple’s statement. The higher class disciple will see what Guru wants from him, what sort of service. He wants that correct English should go to establish his position to the public.” So when it comes to the śiṣya it will dress... Suppose your Gurudeva, when you’re going to take his photo, he with ordinary dress he comes before the photographer. But śiṣya will come, “No, no. Will you stand in this posture, with this dress you must take the photo.” Do you follow?

 

Devotees: Yes, very clear.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So, in language also, Gurudeva gives the main point, but the language, if a little faulty, faulty to the public, the śiṣya will come, “No, this should be couched in a good language.” That is not harmful. Do you find, follow?

 

Devotees: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So, in Sanskrit what your Guru Mahārāja has told, that sarasvatam, “all these things you say” I can’t follow whether it is correct grammatically. But it will be your duty, according to my opinion, to couch it well, in the language. And that will be the greater service, higher quality, service of higher quality. And to say that dictionary should be corrected, then the grammar should be corrected, what my Guru has said, practically that will be the kaniṣṭhaadhikārī’s service, the lower śiṣya, the lower status śiṣya. To spread his prestige and position, you will dress him in good dress.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: For giving vānaprastha, is there any ceremony?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: By the simple desire of the Guru.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: On the desire of Guru. No special ceremony?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: His order.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: On his order. _____________________  Should there be any strict, can there be any restrictions on activities of the Guru?

 

Devotee: That’s very complicated.

 

Harikeśa Mahārāja: Because we are working with a government and we have GBC, a governing body, the governing body of the whole society; so is it possible that even if some members of the governing body, they are not Gurus, but can the governing body as a whole make a restriction on the activity of an individual Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ha, ha, ha. A most difficult thing; the non Guru comes to regulate the Gurus, is it not?

 

Devotees: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Those that are not fit for Guru, who are not considered to be fit, he will come to guide the Guru, so many Gurus; is it? So, it will be better that all the members of the governing body is Guru; they’re all Ācārya.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: They are all Ācāryas.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The sabhā, the assembly of Ācāryas they will consult with each other.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: And make rules.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The Ācārya sabhā, the assembly of the Ācāryas, they will do the function about all the spiritual matters, Ācārya board. There should be an Ācārya board to guide the whole thing from behind, without non Ācārya within the meeting. Then if anybody is considered to be the most expert for the management, he will work under the Ācārya board. But what he has said you must carry out that at present. But I think, gradually you’ll have to get new experience.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Some practical experience.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Practical experience you will have to get.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Time will guide us.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We are suffering a great deal from that. So, the non Ācārya, the majority speaking is non Ācārya?

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Yes. The majority is non Ācārya.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Non Ācārya. But that will... I, according to my opinion, that will create a difficulty.

 

End of 78.03. _ . A [GBC]

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 78.03_B [GBC]

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In our system, both this autocracy and democracy they cannot go together. Cannot go together, but ours is an autocratic thing, extremely autocratic. Guru is all in all, as you will do and experience in yourself, our submission to Guru is unconditional. We felt a great difficulty – submission to Guru is unconditional. So, when I shall see that my Guru’s powers are being pressed by other Gurus, another Vaiṣṇava, it will create a great disturbance in the mind of the śiṣya, to grow his own śraddhā, faith. Absolute faith.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: What about a Board of Gurus?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But our Kṛṣṇa conception of Godhead has come to the relief. You see, whom we think is the supreme most – Kṛṣṇa – Yaśodā is whipping Him. Nanda’s shoes He’s taking on the head, the supreme most Devata, Deity. So in this way also we can adjust. Both the absolute faith and the relative position of non absolute, these two things should be harmonised.

    Guru’s direction; when, after the departure of our Gurudeva, we thought that one Ācārya should be made, but naturally different Ācāryas came. Then, when some of us proposed many Ācāryas, then I told one thing; if you want, if anyone marries a separate room is necessary. Do you follow?

 

Devotee: No.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When for so long you do not marry you may not have any separate room, but as soon as you will marry you want a separate house. Whenever a Vaiṣṇava does not initiate, he does not want any special place or special respect, but whenever he initiates he’s absolute in the eyes of his disciples, from the corresponding impression he’ll be carried out. And the śiṣya will not tolerate that any other Vaiṣṇava will come to disturb the absolute position of my Guru. This is heart’s feeling, sentiment. How to adjust is a very difficult thing.

 

(Background discussion)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So, it will be very difficult to manage practically that democratic absolute characteristic, difficult, but still we shall have to go on. And according to the will of Kṛṣṇa it will be adjusted.

 

Jayapataka Mahārāja: So, the initiating Gurus, then, it would be more practical for them to have a separate board to decide on additional new Gurus?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: No. What conclusion I came to with this experience, that how in this great, universal institution, that should be applied? At least one place should be there where the disciples can get their Guru exclusively. But that could not be possible to actuate. Where they will find my Gurus the absolute here – suppose the birthday of his Guru comes, the disciples gather on the birthday of their Guru. They will, with all their devotion, they will worship him exclusively, that he’s the representative of God, of Kṛṣṇa. But other disciples they may not feel any encouragement in their behaviour. They will see that our faith to our Ācārya is being disturbed by that wave; that my Guru is not absolute, very subtle points of sentiment, and all divine.

    In Kṛṣṇa’s camp also Rādhārāṇī and Chandravālī and others; you see, so we must prepare ourselves for that. So, to the furthest point, then it – then I put one question to my Gurudeva, Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura. Rūpa Goswāmī, he finishes Kṛṣṇa līlā in one way and Sanātana Goswāmī in another. And in various books also we find things in different ways. “Then why He’s adhokṣaja?” That was the answer. He’s adhokṣaja. He’s not bound to come within our fist, of our brain, our speculation; above speculation. Still, we are to march on. The solution of anything in all its detailed characteristic is impossible about Kṛṣṇa, and anything pertaining to Him, all acintya, and must be kept on the head, overhead. Acintya, adhokṣaja. We cannot reach into a particular solution as all complete and perfect. It’s not given to the human race. In this way we are to march on and on, without thinking of any finish, any limit, or any final solution. That is impossible. Still we must go on and on, in the infinite, like a bird who is flying in the infinite space. Finite and infinite must meet in their own positions. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jai.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Go on with fair feelings; this at most I can suggest to you.

 

Tamal Kṛṣṇa Swāmī: Mahārāja, we’re so much grateful.

 

Devotees: Jai.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That will be fair for you that you will extend it from the ṛtvikboard; who is already in power, they will extend, their consideration. They can extend their scope. In this way you move. It will have spiritual characteristic. Do you follow?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: These eleven, they will extend themselves. From this point it will be, the area of Ācāryaship will be extended. Then gradually, twenty four, or more, more, but it will spread from this point; extend, bigger, bigger, bigger. That you may do to keep the spiritual characteristic of the extension of the Ācārya Board.

 

Satsvarūpa Mahārāja: I had one question that Bhāvānanda Mahārāja asked me to ask about the initiating Gurus. On Gaura Pūrṇimā he gave some of the Bengali boys second initiation, so he is their dīkṣā Guru. He wanted to know what respect is required of the dīkṣā Guru, they have already taken Bhaktivedānta Swāmī as their Nāma Guru, should they when they see Bhāvānanda Mahārāja, make praṇāma, should they worship with picture? Or is that not required for the dīkṣā Guru? What is the proper worship of the dīkṣā Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The disciples of Bhāvānanda Mahārāja should see Nāma Guru also within him, and he should be, when in arcana, he should be worshipped as mantra Guru, in mantra words. If arcana is performed it is pañcarātrika, it is tantric mantra. So dīkṣā Guru will be worshipped in the arcana function, and Nāma Guru in bhajana, Nāma bhajana; and in the general case both should be seen as far as possible in one. That at present He’s present in him for me.

 

Satsvarūpa Mahārāja: But for a sannyāsa Guru that kind of worship is not required.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sannyāsa Guru is not generally worshipped but it is a form for propaganda we are to take. In śāstra of course mantra Guru has been given the preference, mantra Guru, but Nāma Guru is Bhāgavat dīkṣā Guru that is more comprehensive. Mantra is to help the Nāma bhajana.

 

Devotee: Mantra Guru’s portrait is worshipped also?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In portrait worship, mantra Guru is a principal thing, that is mantra, rather, local help. Nāma is of eternal help, Hari Nāma. After liberation, Nāma will continue and mantra will disappear. Mantra is up to liberation. As long as I am in the mental world, mantra will relieve me from the mental concoction, but Nāma is always with me, even after liberation.

 

Devotee: Kama Gāyatrī Kṛṣṇa mantra, only up to liberation.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Kama Gāyatrī Kṛṣṇa mantra; it will be automatic at that time. It will be automatic, the desired result will be given by the mantra, and mantra will disappear. It is automatic at that time.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Now, some of our God-brothers, that we have known...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What does he say?

 

Devotee: ___________________________________ You tell and I will explain.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Now, we have been familiar with them, now they have taken this position of initiating Guru. So they’re worshipped by their disciples, nikuñja-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai, [Śrī Gurv-aṣṭaka, 6], that verse, so how are we, it is very difficult for us to understand how these people whom we have known; are we to understand that they have assumed that position and now they’re associating with Kṛṣṇa. How should we understand?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Now, it should be adjusted in twofold ways, the disciples in a sort of disposition and God-brothers in another disposition. You see, when Kṛṣṇa enters ranga-mancha, He’s appearing to different persons in different ways. So, for the disciples of a genuine Guru, Kṛṣṇa will come and play in that line there; and it may not be seen, shown, to his God-brothers. In this way it should be thought. Do you follow?

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Yes, very clear.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Kṛṣṇa can show Himself differently to different persons. You see in mādhurya rasa one is seeing Kṛṣṇa in one way, and in vātsalya rasa Yaśodā is seeing in another way, the servants see another way, a ṛṣi will see, Gargamuni, in another conception. As He likes to show Himself to anybody he will see like that. You may look to him in his own ways, but still, you’ll have to behave in such way that the newcomer’s śraddhā is not disturbed. Do you follow?

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When, after the departure of our Guru Mahārāja, one of us was Ācārya then we all – I myself composed a poem for praṇāma. But I specially prepared it for his disciples, as they will look to him. And for myself I had my own conception. And that should be kept in the mental world and not outside, because the newcomers will be disturbed, their śraddhā will be disturbed. The newcomers should be encouraged, that it is very difficult to collect our faith, regard, and offer to Guru; it is very difficult for a fallen soul. So the maximum regard that they can collect within them and offer it to Guru, it will be our lookout. So what conceptions about my God-brother I may have, I may foster that within the heart, but won’t disturb the disciple.

    Of course, as much as it is possible, if it is unfortunately if that Ācārya falls himself, proves himself to be lacking in that capacity, and if that comes to a sufficient degree, then some steps may be taken. Otherwise as long as possible the rank should be respected. But the guinea stamp, man is the goal for that. taṭasthā-vicāra and apeki vicāra, absolute consideration and relative consideration. And your Einstein says that, “No absolute consideration is possible in this world, all relative.” So both relative and absolute considerations go side by side.

    Disciples should be encouraged by the relative consideration, mostly. And God-brothers are more free for Absolute consideration. But still, they should not disturb the newcomers in their premier position. But if unfortunately any bad incident happens, then of course we may have to do some unhappy action. But let God save us from that disastrous condition. That should be our feeling. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In Rādhā-kuṇḍa when our Vṛndāvana circumambulation was going on, perhaps nineteen thirty two, Prabhupāda, on the banks of Brahmā-kuṇḍa he delivered lecture and told, as I remember. “That perfect divinity has come down up to my Gurudeva. Up to my Guru Pāda Padma this perfect divinity has come down. Then consideration may be practised.” So;

 

ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān, [nāvamanyeta karhicit / na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ]

 

[“One should know the Ācārya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.”]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.17.27]  +  [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, 1.46]

 

    By God’s special grace, this is one of His functions, “That go low to the lowest person and to take him from there gradually.” This is one eternal function of the Supreme Lord. There is gradation, a gradation section, hierarchy. Everywhere there is God’s presence, and His helping tendency is also present everywhere. Only to convert the free will, to attract the free will of every jīva, even in creeper sections, in trees, and animals, there is also at heart God there as Paramātmā, in that stage. So, there is gradation.

 

parokṣa-vādo vedo 'yaṁ, bālānām anuśāsanam [karma-mokṣāya karmāṇi, vidhatte hy agadaṁ yathā]

 

    [“The Vedas often imply something deeper and different from what appears to be the superficial interpretation of its words. Thus the Vedas sometimes indirectly arrive at the Truth. As a child is tempted with something sweet to make it swallow bitter medicine, the Vedas sometimes glorify the path of karma, when the real goal of the Vedas is to promote liberation from karma.] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.3.44]

 

    Just as a teacher of a child, by instalments he will supply the truth, not the whole truth to a child, but partially, gradually. So the śāstra, the scripture has also taken that path, by instalments. So Guru is also, teacher is also in that way represented. Just as śāstra to the lowest, then superior, superior, superior; teacher is also, Guru is also in that way it is coming, then at a certain position workable truth. Otherwise mainly within māyā it is also working. Māyā is not exclusively excluded from the interference of Godhead. Everywhere there is the presence of the Supreme, otherwise He’s not Supreme. Everywhere His influence, and by gradation, degree, it is. And where we are we are handling human culture in human society, but in other sections there is also a sort of culture amongst the dogs, amongst the tigers, there’ll also be a sort of culture society there, aniti, everywhere.

    But śuddha bhakti, a workable, substantial true atmosphere anyhow we have come, we must deal from there. With this spacious and generous consideration that we cannot bind down the activities of the Supreme Lord, in any way. More sympathetic to the more poor, always He’s trying to keep up, lift up. That is the general question, but that is not practicable to the extreme. Ha, Ha.

    Once, I asked a doctor, “Do you know everything? You go to cure a person, but do you know everything? You may do harm to him by applying false medicine, or by applying one medicine another disease may come. Have you got any perfect knowledge? Why do you venture to treat a man?” He submitted, but a reaction came in me, then how the world will go on? Everyone has no full truth, no full knowledge. Then the doctors, teachers, they all finish their, non-cooperate, is it possible? So not practicable. Sincerity is the best thing to judge. Sincerely, whatever I do, and think it is good.

    The other day I told that when I feel that Hari Nāma, Kṛṣṇa Nāma, has removed my trouble, I am eligible to recommend it to another person. “Oh. Do it. It will help you.” If I sincerely feel that this medicine has helped me, then I have got some right to give it to others, suggest to others, “Oh. Take Kṛṣṇa Nāma. It will relieve you from all the troubles.”

From the lowest point it begins – the activity of Ācārya. “I have felt that I have got relief.” With good will I shall offer it to help other persons. “Just do it.” From there it may begin, the position of Ācārya, you see, and then it will go on. You see, we are also doing in our own way what little service we do to the society and Swāmī Mahārāja has also done. But he has done like an ocean, and we are like so many tanks, ponds. But still we are going on.

 

yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

kabhu nā vādhibe tomāra viṣaya-taraṅga, punarapi ei ṭhāñi pābe mora saṅga]

 

    [Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu told His followers: “Instruct whoever you meet in the science of Kṛṣṇa. Teach them the instructions of Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā, and the teachings about Kṛṣṇa in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way, on My order, become a Guru and liberate everyone in the land. If you follow this instruction, the waves of materialism within this world will not affect you. Indeed, if you follow My order, you will soon attain My association.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 7.128-9]

 

Satsvarūpa Mahārāja: Thank you very much Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja.

 

Devotee: Virudha virodha.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Virudha.

 

Devotee: Maladjustment.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Maladjustment, anomaly, not proper adjustment, that’s opposite to proper adjustment, erroneous – that is no adjustment, erroneous position; that is māyā. Māyā has got two functions, one to cover and another to scatter, vichit, āvaraṇā and vikit [?] These two tendencies of māyā, first it screens, and then it...

 

Devotee: Dissipates.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It misdirects. First as a screen, that is cover, what is like darkness. And what darkness does; this way or that way we can’t understand hither and thither how we move.

 

Devotee: Āvaraṇā ātmā, vikṣepa ātmā.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vikṣepa ātmā, and harmonises, svarūpa śakti is always the harmonising potency, and discordant potency is māyā. The harmonising potency is svarūpa śakti, Yogamāyā. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Can we ask? ________________________ [?]

 

Devotee: To keep the integrity of relationship between the...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It is a question of śraddhā. God’s līlā cannot be finished. In His feeling also there is no limit. So touch an ocean is also - from one side I’m touching from the bank touching the ocean; that is also touching. And if you go a mile deep into the ocean, there also you are making some progress, but in comparison to infinite it is nothing. Is it not?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So, with genuine śraddhā we can come near the position, and my attempt, nikuñja-yūno and all these things, it is like the sun is there, but suppose a black glass, then I cannot see the full sun. Is it not?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And if I show, but still I’m seeing the sun through a black glass. So the opaque nature is opposing, and as much as it is discovered, I am seeing the true thing. But śraddhā can take us in connection with that thing. Śraddhā, or proper quality, not false śraddhā, not imitation śraddhā; real śraddhā comes near that real entity, the Supreme Entity. And as much as it is increased, I go deeper and deeper. Do you follow?

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Yes. So in that way gradually one can come to that point.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Gradually. So the beginning, with genuine śraddhā the beginning also should be respected. God willing he may go and pass me, and I’m going slow, he may go quickly and overtake me one day. With all these possibilities we should try to give respect to any beginner. He may surpass me one day.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Because he has come in connection with the real thing, God willing, he may surpass me and go ahead one day. It may be possible. So it is Yogamāyā’s activity, God’s favour, all these are working for him. So we cannot be too much proud. With all this humility we shall have to deal with these matters; not haughtiness. With submissive spirit we are to see everything with such angle of vision.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: So, in this way we can understand our own position.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When I joined the Mah, not joined, but I had come to take a decision whether I shall join the Maṭh; that is, taking initiation from Guru Mahārāja. In Māyāpur, like today, the function had been finished and those that came were gradually going away. Prabhupāda is sitting in a canvas chair. I also sat nearby. He’s speaking to the people, “Oh. Don’t deceive me. You gave understanding that you will come to worship Kṛṣṇa. Now anyhow you have come going away. I think that you are all deceiving me.” In this way he said.

    Then he said - one who built the Chaitanya Maṭh Temple that year, he was sitting on the floor, then one person amongst us said, “Oh Madhan Bābu has not been given even a mat, he’s on the bare floor he’s sitting.” Then Prabhupāda told that, “Madhan Bābu is nirupādhika Vaiṣṇava.” Here’s your point. “Madhan Bābu is nirupādhika Vaiṣṇava. But I have got some upādhi.” Who are you who know the meaning of upādhi?

 

Devotees: Designation, bodily title, person.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Designation, yes, rank. “I am Ācārya, holding Ācārya’s position. I should be given some position, some respect, so I am given a chair. And he’s nirupādhi Vaiṣṇava. He’s got no such designation to show to the people about his devotional bhakti, so he’s taking his seat anywhere and everywhere. He may do it.” So upādhi, Ācārya’s position is also upādhi, designation, a rank, and rank should be respected, you know. The son is the judge and the father is the pleader, ‘Mi Lord.’ So the designation is there and this protocol we should observe.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: But aside from giving, is it just a matter of formality?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If you think the person who is doing the function of Ācārya he’s in taṭasthā-vicāra, absolute consideration, his adhikārais lower to you, still you should formally give special honour to him because he’s in that position. You see the father is giving the honour to the chair, of the judge, ‘Mi Lord.’ Like that you should do, otherwise the social fashion will be disturbed. Is it not?

 

Devotee: Yes. The son may be the judge and pleader may be father. But the father must give respect to the chair.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Father gives respect to the chair, so that sort of – something like that, adjustment should be kept in the Mission. When you are alone, the Ācārya brother and non Ācārya brother, when alone you can mix freely, you can give a slap to his cheek. But when publicly amongst his disciples, you must show that sort of behaviour, conduct, should be maintained to keep up the peace and the activity possible.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: How should one himself understand? Suppose I’m empowered by my Guru Mahārāja to initiate disciples, so they’re offering me worship, nikuñja-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai, but how am I to understand? They’re saying like this that I’m in this position, but does it mean that because I’ve been given that position of Guru, actually I have got?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ________ one thing I shall say. That śloka you know?

 

aham vedmi śuko vetti, vyāso vetti na vetti vā

[bhaktyā bhāgavataṁ grāhyaṁ na buddhyā na ca ṭīkayā]

 

[Lord Śiva says: “I know the true purpose of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam; Śukadeva, the son and disciple of Vyāsadeva, knows it thoroughly, and the author of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Vyāsadeva may or may not know the meaning. The real purpose of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is very difficult to conceive and can only be known through bhakti.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 24.313]

 

Śrīdhar Swāmī wrote the commentary of Bhāgavatam, and it was a little different from the previous note, commentary. So the scholars they refused to accept that commentary as universal, especially the Śaṅkarites. Then they put a test that it should be kept in the temple of Viśvanātha, and if He _________  Viśvanātha, Mahādeva, Śiva, and if he accepts then we shall all accept the commentary. Then from the Śiva temple this reservation came. The real purpose of Bhāgavatam is very difficult to conceive. Only these few of us we know the real purpose. Aham vedmi, Mahādeva says, “I know the true purpose of Bhāgavatam. Śuko vetti, and Śukadeva, the son and disciple of Vyāsadeva, he knows it, thoroughly. Aham vedmi śuko vetti, vyāso vetti na vetti vā, and the author of Bhāgavatam, he may know or may not.”

    Do you follow?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then, your question is served.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: How, I don’t understand?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mahāprabhu, when teaching Sanātana Goswāmī, He says that, “Sanātana, Kṛṣṇa is going to give His kindness to you, through Me. I’m talking to you like a madman. I feel many things are passing through Me to you, I feel that much, but I do not know, but have not Myself got that thing.” Do you follow?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then solution?

 

Devotees: Yes. That’s very clear. Thank you very much.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It is possible. It is wonderful, but still we find it there, and not unreasonable, and not not-understandable.

 

Jayadwaita Mahārāja: That last explanation, was that the meaning of transparent via media? These new Gurus, you said they simply must be transparent and then it will work. ________________________ [?]

 

Devotee: Acha, simply by functioning in their roles it will work like that.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ah, function. You see, when, of course in sincere cases; when the Second Great War broke out, in Cacutta Dalhousi Square, a military dress was painted on the wall, and there was a saying, “Just take this garb and the dress will say to you what you will have to do.” Do you follow? “Take the military dress and the dress will direct you what you have to do, what will be your duty.” So a sincere man when he has taken a particular charge, anyhow he will make out what duty to do, what is the duty of that post, if sincere. And God will help. God helps those that helps themselves. You have taken the charge, and charge has not come only as a chance, but there is some underground link. And then if you try to do that then help will come to you. He’s not a cheat. You have sincerely taken a charge for the master, and the master is not a cheat. He will come to you with all his might. “Do this. I’m helping. I’m at your back.” When we’re all sincere, these things happen like this.

 

End of 78.03_B [GBC]

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.00.00.A

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ___________________________ [?] I shall sell my head there only wherever I shall find that the river of nectar is coming down to me from the upper side. And I must be conscious of my own wealth, otherwise mere formal, I have not got taste, I have not got anything, I am a blind man. My decision has got no value. When one is conscious of his own gain, that this is the highest thing, and this is coming from this way to me, I must sell myself there, to the feet, or whatever.

 

kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya, / yei kṛṣṇa-tattva vettā sei guru haya.

 

    [“Whether a person is a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī, or a śūdra, if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is to be accepted as Guru.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 8.127]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mahāprabhu says to Rāmānanda Rāya, “Wherever the tattva, wherever the nectar divine, ecstasy, I shall offer Me to be a slave there.” That is my direct concern. Wherever and whatever form it may be, it does not matter much. It has got some value, but that we should not trust them, the inner thing will be given immense value, than the external cover. Cover has also got value.

 

Devotee: Then there’s a chance for a type of sahajiyā to come in where they’ll say reject the form on their whim.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And the spirit gone away then cannot but be sahajiyā. The body connection gets the upper hand and becomes sahajiyā. When conscious, when awake to the wealth he’s getting he cannot be sahajiyā.

 

Devotee: He has a taste, a ruci.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: “Here is, my Guru’s advice I find there, in this man. Anyhow it has come here.” He’ll be able to trace, “How, I do not know, but I see my Guru’s characteristic, my dealings, my behaviour, is in him. He’s my Guru.” When I shall be able to recognise the thing in its intrinsic value, independent value, then wherever I shall find it, here is… There was one Aurobindo Ghosh, do you know him?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He was a leader of the Anarchist Party, and there was a case in the High Court. So one Mr. Norton, he was the criminal side big Barrister, Norton. Aurobindo had absconded and how to find him? Wherever Norton searched through any newspaper or any writings, the Aurobindo’s type of writing, “Here is Mr. Ghosh.” Ha, ha, ha. He said, “Here is Mr. Ghosh.” In the Amṛta Bazaar Patrikāby Bipin Pal, Aurobindo wrote an article, and Bipin Pal was introduced into the High Court.

    “Your Paper, this article is written by whom? You must know. You are the editor.”

    “Yes, I know.”

    “Do you know this man, Aurobindo Ghosh?”

    “Yes, I know him. I consider him to be one of the greatest men in the world.”

    “Do you know him?”

    “Yes, I know him.”

    “And you know also, as editor of the paper, is this article written by whom?”

    “Yes, I know.”

    “Has this man written this article?”

    “I won’t say.”

    “You won’t say?”

    “No, I won’t say.”

    “Do you know what the punishment is?”

    “Yes, six months imprisonment.”

    “You are ready for that?”

    “Yes, I’m ready for that.”

    Then Norton said, “Here is Mr. Ghosh.” In his writing he saw that Aurobindo is there. Aurobindo’s English was very good English we are told.

 

    Just as, “Here is my Gurudeva.” Our Gurudeva also, Prabhupāda; sometimes in one of his - sometimes in some of his disciples, “Here is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. I could not recognise him.” There was one Bhāgavat Janadana, when he departed – “I could not find him in this particular article. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura came here, but I could not recognise _____________ ” Always seeing like that.

 

Sarvata krsne mukti pari baraman se lekhi ke pai jan akhi arijan [?]

 

    We are caught out by different attractive things in the world, but them of divine look, divine atmosphere, they’re always seeing signs of divinity anywhere and everywhere. Very eager to see, to hear, “This Goswāmī came, this Goswāmī came. I could not understand. I could not recognise.” By their thoughts, by their tendency, divine tendency, attitude, they’re to read what is here. “My Guru’s temperament is here.” And in Caritāmṛta you must have found:

 

kintu tomāra prema dekhi' mane anumāni / mādhavendra-purīra 'sambandha' dhara - jāni

 

    [“Upon seeing Your ecstatic love, I can just imagine that You must have some relationship with Mādhavendra Purī. This is my understanding.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 17.172]

 

    Mahāprabhu detected the Sanoiyābrāhmaṇa, seeing his movements, He at once told, “You must have some connection with Mādhavendra Purī. Without his connection we can never find such dealings here. It must come from Mādhavendra Purī.”

In this way we are to find out things. The first thing is that we must know it ourselves, what is the thing, then how to do, what way to deal. We shall be able to arrange ourselves selflessly. When we’ll be selfless, and moreover, when we’ll be dedicated to Guru Pāda Padma, then that will give us insinuation what to do; that will teach us what steps we are to take now in this critical position.

 

Devotee: ŚikṣāGuru is not a cheap thing which can be taken or left, it has...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Guru tattva, so, it is said there, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān.

 

ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān, nāvamanyeta karhicit / na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ

 

[“One should know the Ācārya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.”]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.17.27]  & [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, 1.46]

 

    Not to be differentiated _________________ One thing coming, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān, so the oneness of continuity, that should not be ignored. Guru can be him, and Guru can be another body also. I can see the same Guru. Rather, higher education in a different body he may come to give me higher aspiration, higher inspiration. It is also possible. ___________________ Whether the breath is more important, or the nose is more important. Breath must be more important than the nose. So, material substance - that should be given always the higher valuation, than the form.

 

Devotee: _______________ [?]

 

Devotee: _______________ [?]

 

Śrīla Govinda Mahārāja: Come now and then.

...

Devotee: _______ānanda Swāmī and myself, we’re staying in Calcutta alone. Then he wrote us a letter, that, “If you have any questions, then you can see Śrīdhara Swāmī and he will be able to advise you. He is my dear-most...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He had much faith in me. When he was in business in Calcutta, I hired the next house, with the laboratory underground and first floor, four rooms, we, Govinda Mahārāja, we all stayed. Every day he used to come to me, and three, four, five hours, discussion, discussion, discussion. And there that Back to Godhead was published and also the translation of Bhagavad-gītā was made from there, that [7] Sitakanta Banerjee Lane. Number six or number seven _____________ [?]

 

(Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja and Devotees speak together in Bengali [?] for about 1.40 minutes, with the occasional English words; ie, Sitakanta Banerjee Lane, Back to Godhead, laboratory, seven or eight years, article “To Err is Human”, Vyāsa as the great dictator of the spiritual world.)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Not human; it is divine, divine, divine, not human deed. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

...

Devotee: _______________________________________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...may live or may not live, but I gave that suggestion __________________

_______________ first heard the divine sound from his Gurudeva; first connection, the first connection of divinity, from Prabhupāda [Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura] to your Prabhupāda. Assam, that was the place. Of course, we also had initiation and Hari Nāma, and then dīkṣā, then sannyāsa, all in that house; many, Bon Mahārāja and many, there.

 

(More Bengali for nearly six minutes)

...

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In one same tune, perhaps, as your Prabhupāda. My thought almost tuned in the same plane. That is, crossing the domain of knowledge, that is jñāna, the plane, making advance.

 

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam / ānukūlyena-kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

 

[“One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa favourably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service.”] [Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindu, 1.1.11]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.21.11, purport] & [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 19-167]

 

Bhakti, the road of bhakti, the path of bhakti, is independent. It does not depend either on karma, yoga or jñāna. Independently it can take seed from sukṛti, and then śraddhā, sādhu-saṅga, in this way it marches up to the Goloka, prema loka. But when it’s passing by the side of karma, near varṇāśrama, karma, and then jñāna kāṇḍa, Vedānta, to cross karma kāṇḍa, this is transient, mortal, it is easy to make anybody understand, that bhakti is better than karma kāṇḍa. It is all transient, all mortal. But jñāna kāṇḍa, this stands as the greatest enemy to bhakti, to māyāvādā; and when it is passing, surpassing rather, jñāna kāṇḍa and going towards prema bhakti, on the way, Vedānta, that jñāna vairāgya; it is going, passing the jñāna kāṇḍa and it is progressing towards the prema loka. Then the Bhāgavata comes. Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, varṇāśrama and bhakti, the differentiated śuddha bhakti school from varṇāśrama, Hari-bhakti-vilāsasmṛtiis there. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is there when it is dealing with jñāna and yoga. That is pure spiritualism, pure knowledge _____________ and passing away that and going towards prema loka, the love domain, the divine love; that is the highest.

 

(More Bengali for about twenty five seconds)

 

    Because the divine will stands behind, so it is true. And divine will withdrawn, it has no value; so all the scientific structure crushed down. Only the sweet will of the Lord, backing before everything, what is what. And that is withdrawn, it will be otherwise.  _________________________________________ [?]

He’s willing, so it is like this. The sun will be dark if His will is drawn away.

___________________________________________________ [?]

 

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ, jagad avyakta-mūrtinā / mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni, na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

 

    [“In an unmanifest manner, I pervade this entire universe, and everything conceivable is situated within Me - and yet, I am not situated within that total entity.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 9.4]

na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni, paśya me yogam aiśvaram

[bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-stho, mamātmā bhūta-bhāvanaḥ]

 

    [“And again, that is also not situated in Me. Just behold My inconceivable simultaneous one and different (acintya-bhedābheda) nature as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and Lord of the universe! Although My very Self is the mainstay and guardian of all beings, I am not implicated by them.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 9.5]

 

________________________________________ [?] The law of nature will change immediately. His law, because it is backed by His divine sweet will; if His sweet will is drawn away, it is nothing.

 

Devotee: The vaijñānīs they don’t accept, therefore they’re rascals.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: __________________ [?] unreasonable ________________ [?]

 

Devotee: Very reasonable.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That is possible, and if it is possible, then this is all lost; all the big vaijñānīstructure lost. The sweet will of the main principle, the Absolute...

 

Devotee: This Māyāpur temple is for that purpose. Just a few days ago Harikeśa Mahārāja came for two days. Because it was a short visit he couldn’t come here. So we were discussing building a big temple; how we went to the Devī dhāma, Maheśvar dhāma, Vaikuṇṭha dhāma, Goloka dhāma.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I asked him to go through Bṛhat-Bhāgavatāmṛta by Sanātana Goswāmī. There he will get the clear idea. The Devī dhāma, Bhūr, Bhuvaḥ, Svaḥ, Mahā, Jana, Tapa, and Satyaloka: and what incidences are occurring in which place. Then how to differentiate from Virajā, Brahmaloka, then Śivaloka, then Vaikuṇṭhaloka, then Ayodhyā, then Dvārakā, then Mathurā, then Vṛndāvana. Gradation, tarottama, is nicely described there by Sanātana Goswāmī; the sambandha Ācārya, the Ācārya of the Gauḍīya School to say what is what. What is what we can understand from Sanātana Goswāmī. And how to attain our end, from Rūpa Goswāmī; and what is the highest attainment, that is Raghunātha Dāsa Goswāmī; these three Ācāryas. And Jīva Goswāmī is protecting all those higher and such thoughts against the current vicāra of the Veda, Vedānta _______________ [?]

 

Devotee: Sambhanda, abhidheya, prayojana.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sambhanda, abhidheya, prayojana. Abhidheya Ācārya Rūpa Goswāmī, prayojana Ācārya Raghunātha Dāsa Goswāmī, and the sambandha Ācārya, what is what, Sanātana Goswāmī. Where are we? Who is God to me? What is the world? And what are their different stages? All these are described by Sanātana Goswāmī in Bṛhat-Bhāgavatāmṛta. I got my conception from there. And of course that was also tested and verified by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s books, Prabhupāda personally ____

 

(More Bengali for about fifty seconds)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hari-jana means the servants of Hari. They’re now mad in their transaction with the worldly affairs, viṣaya, material. They apparently seem to be dealing with material properties, viṣaya range, mattala. Pūjāla rāgapaṭha gaurava bāṅge. The underlying idea is this; they really want to worship the rāgapaṭha, the way of love, path of love, rāgapaṭha __________ our affection, love, attraction, that is their real hit, not this ordinary material handling. Pūjāla rāgapaṭha gaurava bāṅge. So generally, after Śrī Caitanyadeva, the rāgapaṭha in the hands of imitationists has become very down, gone done a level. So the big persons, they rather hate them. So with the help of what is big, according to the mass conception, we’re to take that sort of help and to show that rāgapaṭha is higher and higher. We are not indolent. We are active men. Still, we want to do for God. Not that __________________ The worthless people, they will only go to the way of devotion, no. The highly qualified, they should devote everything for the service of the Supreme Lord. That is so great, so big, so, ___________________ pūjāla rāgapaṭha gaurava bāṅge / mattala hari-jana viṣaya range. ____________________________ [?]

    All the majesty should be devoted, should be utilised, to Him only, that love is supreme, that is the supreme most. That Vṛndāvana, that Kṛṣṇa’s, that flower garden, that is higher than the golden garland, golden ornament, this golden crown, hillock, all these things, they’re lower. And aiśvaryapuṣpa and Govardhan, that is gunja phalmayo pucha that is of more higher valuation, and these are lower in Vaikuṇṭha, the diamond, the gold, all these valuable things, aiśvarya_____________________ that is more valuable.

    Svarūpa Dāmodara is in Hira Pañcamīday, in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrīvāsa Paṇḍita and Svarūpa Dāmodara, the discourse, there it is mentioned. “Śrīvāsa Paṇḍita, you forget you are up to Vaikuṇṭha so you are very fond of Lakṣmī Devī’s aiśvarya, but we are vrajavāsīs. We give more value to this flower, the leaves, and the _______ all these things. That is more valuable to us these plain and simple things, more than… Who has got much aiśvarya, they do not care for gold and diamonds, rather they’re vexed with all these things. But our, and kiśora _______ and that is always pleasing like things.

 

Devotee: I just had one question, because I know it must be time for your bath or something now, or your prasādam.

 

(More Bengali for about 3.15 minutes)

 

Devotee: Prabhupāda said, “You’re my disciples. You’re all very good boys. You’re my disciples. Very good.” _________________________ [?] What did he say exactly?

 

Devotee: ________________________ [?]

 

Devotee: “You’re my disciples.” So then what happened is that he never gave them mālā, he never gave them new name, and they went back to their village. Then they go back and then they gave themselves mālā, gave themselves name.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then he has accepted them, gave admission; now śikṣā Guru is necessary. When he has accepted them direct, face to face, then they’re direct disciples. Now śikṣā Guru is necessary, to guide them in details. Acceptance is more valued.

 

Devotee: Yes. That’s what I thought, that those who personally went there, Prabhupāda said that, “You are my śiṣyas.” That that acceptance means that directly they’re his disciples. But those who did not go there, those others who were in the village...

 

(More Bengali for about 1.50 minutes)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mantra is formal encouched in expression. What is embodied there, that is to be opened. And that tattva jñāna, that is not an easy thing, that is not a non important factor. Real dīkṣā is there, tattva jñāna _______________________________________________________________ [?]

 

Devotee: Biphal?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Biphal mantra. He does not know what is contained there. He’s transferring something, an expression, but the one whose giving, he himself is not aware of what is embodied there.

 

Devotee: He doesn’t know.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He doesn’t know.

 

Devotee: That clears up the point. But once a person accepts someone as śikṣā Guru, or when he approaches someone for training, that shouldn’t be a whimsical thing.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Śikṣā Guru, dīkṣā Guru, when seen or placed in one place; that of course is higher.

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then, when we’re accepted by him, “You are my disciple,” then they will also have to accept śikṣā Guru, but śikṣā Guru should not get so much honour as dīkṣā Guru. But when dīkṣā Guru and śikṣā Guru is combined in the next generation, there of course the fullest confidence and honour should be given to the dīkṣā Guru. Do you follow?

 

Devotee: Hmm. What’s the position of mantra Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mantra Guru, of course he’s consciously giving, he’s good, mantra Guru. Ha, ha, śikṣā Guru, more stress is given to śikṣā Guru in our samprādaya, our Guru paramparā. The taṭasthā-vicāra, the relative and absolute; two lines of consideration, one is relative and another is absolute; when some contrast will come the absolute will be superior. You see: yei rasa, sei sarvottama.Vātsalya rasa, śanta rasa, dāsya rasa, sākhya rasa, mādhurya rasa; the parents, they will think, “I have the superior position.” And the sākha, friend, he will think, “I am the most intimate with Kṛṣṇa.” In their respective positions, they will think that they’re the most intimate. But if a comparison is drawn, independent of their position, then the mādhurya rasa will come highest.

 

[kintu yāṅra] yei rasa, sei sarvottama / taṭa-stha hañā vicārile, [āche tara-tama]

 

    [“It is true that whatever relationship a particular devotee has with the Lord is the best for him; still, when we study all the different methods from a neutral position, we can understand that there are higher and lower degrees of love.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 8.83]

 

    From the absolute consideration the mādhurya rasa surpasses all, the vātsalya rasa, sākhya rasa, they’re all down. Though the vātsalya rasa and sākhya rasa they may think that great intimacy they have got, more than the mādhurya rasa; a relative position under the absolute. But our Guru paramparāis that of absolute consideration. Many bodily representations eliminated from the Guru paramparā. And the current of śikṣā, the higher, pure śikṣā, that current is coming down. Wherever, from this summit to that summit, from that summit, in this way the river coming down. Do you follow?

 

mahāprabhu śrī-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya

rūpānuga janera jīvana viśwambhara priyaṅkara

śrī-swarūpa dāmodara, [śrī-goswāmī rūpa-sanātana]

 

[“Mahāprabhu Śrī Caitanya is non different from Śrī Śrī Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and is the very life of those Vaiṣṇavas who follow Śrī Rūpa Goswāmī. Śrī Svarūpa Dāmodara Goswāmī, Rūpa Goswāmī, and Sanātana Goswāmī were the givers of great happiness to Viśvambhara (Śrī Caitanya).”

[Songs Of The Vaiṣṇava Ācāryas, p 90-3]

 

    [This is the sixth of nine verses describing the Brahma-Mādhva-Gauḍīya sampradāya as compiled by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswatī Ṭhākura.]

 

    Not actual line of initiation...

 

End of 79.00.00.A

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.00.01.A

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...sambandha, what is the conception of Kṛṣṇa, and how other gods are connected with Him, how the world’s position, the Brahmaloka, Virajā, all these, how their adjustment. The proper adjustment, sambandha jñāna, the knowledge of proper adjustment of the universe, divine and mundane, sambandha jñāna. And Sanātana Goswāmī is told to be the... he has come to give us that sort, he’s authority of that department. So in Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛta he has given instructions what is Bhūr, Bhuvaḥ, Svaḥ, Mahā, Jana, Tapa, and Satyaloka, this Brahmaloka, what is the position of the brahmāṇḍa. And what is Virajā, what is Brahmaloka, what is Vaikuṇṭha, what is Śivaloka, then what is Goloka, what is Ayodhyā, Dvārakā.

 

All these according to rasa, you see rasa is the main thing, the main structure, desirable structure is rasa. That is the juice, the juice which attracts us all. And none, even from the atheist of the lowest order, and the devotee of the highest order - none can deny that I don’t want happiness. So rasa is the standard. Just as gold is the standard in the monetary departments of different countries, so rasa is the main thing by which we should judge. What country is wealthy, what country is not wealthy, poor, by gold you can judge in the international affairs. So, in the diverse type of expression, through rasa we can measure and we can degree and dismiss what is right, what is wrong, what is better, what is bad, what is good. So according to the rasa, the quality and quantity, the lower and higher order should be judged.

 

    So, vaikuṇṭhāj janito varā madhu-purī, why madhu-purī is higher than Vaikuṇṭha? Only for vātsalya rasa. It is not in Nārāyaṇa, it is not found in Vaikuṇṭha, the vātsalya rasa. And it is found in Ayodhyā and also Mathurā so it is higher. That rasa, that vātsalya rasa is wanted here in Vaikuṇṭha and the original side, higher side. And it is found here, it is a perverted reflection. By method of deceiving the vātsalya rasa is here but it is the reflection. And in the original world where is vātsalya rasa? It is not found in Vaikuṇṭha though there must be some other loka where vātsalya rasa is to be found. And that will be the higher. In this way Mathurā has been founded. Then the mādhurya-rasais here and that is not to be traced properly in Vaikuṇṭha. Where can it be had? So we shall have to go to Vṛndāvana. In this way he has given us the gradual development of the loka according to rasa.

 

vaikuṇṭhāj janito varā madhu-purī tatrāpi rāsotsavād

vṛndāraṇyam udāra-pāṇi-ramaṇāt tatrāpi govardhanaḥ

rādhā-kuṇḍam ihāpi gokula-pateḥ premāmṛtāplāvanāt

kuryād asya virājato giri-taṭe sevāṁ vivekī na kaḥ

 

    [“The holy place known as Mathurā is spiritually superior to Vaikuṇṭha, the transcendental world, because the Lord appeared there. Superior to Mathurā-purī is the transcendental forest of Vṛndāvana because of Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā pastimes. And superior to the forest of Vṛndāvana is Govardhana Hill, for it was raised by the divine hand of Śrī Kṛṣṇa and was the site of His various loving pastimes. And, above all, the super-excellent Śrī Rādhā-kuṇḍa stands supreme, for it is over-flooded with the ambrosial nectarean prema of the Lord of Gokula, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Where, then, is that intelligent person who is unwilling to serve this divine Rādhā-kuṇḍa, which is situated at the foot of Govardhana Hill?”] [Upadeśāmṛta, 9]

 

    In this side also:

 

karmibhyaḥ parito hareḥ priyatayā vyaktiṁ yayur jñāninas

tebhyo jñāna-vimukta-bhakti-paramāḥ premaika-niṣṭhās tataḥ

tebhyas tāḥ paśu-pāla-paṅkaja-dṛśas tābhyo ‘pi sā rādhikā

preṣṭhā tadvad iyaṁ tadīya-sarasī tāṁ nāśrayet kaḥ kṛtī

 

[“There are those in the world who regulate their tendency for exploitation in accordance with the scriptural rules and thereby seek gradual elevation to the spiritual domain. However, superior to them are those wise men who, having given up the tendency to lord over others, attempt to dive deep into the realm of consciousness. But far superior to them are the pure devotees who are free from any mundane ambitions and are liberated from knowledge, not by knowledge, having achieved divine love. They have gained entrance into the land of dedication and are engaged there spontaneously in the Lord's loving service. Among all devotees, however, the gopīs are the highest, for they have forsaken everyone, including their families, and everything, including the strictures of the Vedas, and have taken complete shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, accepting Him as their only protection. But among all the gopīs, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī reigns supreme. For Kṛṣṇa left the company of millions of gopīs during the rasa dance to search for Her alone. She is so dear to Śrī Kṛṣṇa that the pond in which She bathes is His very favourite place. Who but a madman would not aspire to render service, under the shelter of superior devotees, in that most exalted of all holy places.”] [Upadeśāmṛta, 10]

 

So here also in this world, brahmāṇḍa, this is a world of exploitation. And when the exploitation is going less it is higher, in the Satyaloka the least exploitation. And then Virajā no exploitation, but it is the verge of this brahmāṇḍa. And then Brahmaloka it is the last position, rather, the cover of Vaikuṇṭha, it is spiritual, light. The prakṛti is watery, prakṛti is watery, accommodating. As when we push water it goes away, so prakṛti is like that. And puruṣa, cetana, that is like light, so that is Brahmaloka. That is the last, the lowest conception of the cinmaya, or the glow of service. Here the exploitation and there fully exploited. The outer current and that is inner current, current leading towards centre. And this is out carrying current, taking away from Kṛṣṇa. And that is taking towards Kṛṣṇa. That is service, leading towards centre. And that’s Vaikuṇṭha. Just in the lowest position there’s Śivaloka, then Vaikuṇṭha, then Ayodhyā, then Dvārakā, then Mathurā, then Vṛndāvana, then Govardhana, then Rādhā-kuṇḍa. In this way it has been described according to tattva, ontological conception, the hierarchy has been depicted there in Bṛhat-Bhāgavatāmṛta.

 

I had a mind that I shall build a temple here of that type, but a huge expense. So when I heard that he will have the biggest temple in the world there I gave suggestion to your Divine  Master, “You do.”

“Yes. When I, such site will come, they will have a conception of what is what, what is good. That Kṛṣṇa is the highest and He has come down in prapañcato give darśana to the people.

This Bhu Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana in the highest order, and that Vṛndāvana he has taken here. Navadvīpa also, there’s two quarters. Vṛndāvana Goloka and Navadvīpa. And here Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa has come down in the surface to take us up. What we see in the temple here, in the ground floor, that is really a thing of the highest order. And that has been, in a spiral case it will be seen. What is the sign of Goloka, what is the sign of Bhuvaḥ, Mahā, Jana, Tapa, or Satyaloka, Brahmaloka, Virajā, Brahmaloka, then Śivaloka, Vaikuṇṭha, Goloka, it is really they go up and see. They will have a conception of the whole practical structure of the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava who will have a darśana of this temple. Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava means this. There, this is their comparative vision of the ontological quarter. The whole philosophy will be depicted there in the temple. So this is the philosophy of the Gauḍīyas.

 

Devotee: Topmost.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa. You two may go to Māyāpur, driving in the car?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I asked Govinda Mahārāja to take me out of the ________ and forcibly he took it to the boat.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: We forced our way over.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: You have to be very forceful, especially in preaching now, because everyone has gone so crazy due to Kali-yuga. When you travel all over the world you have to be so forceful and...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Direct approach and forceful approach, direct.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Yes. I find that is the best.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You got also direct and you distribute also direct. Ha, ha.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Ha, ha. Yes. When I was in Australia in January then many of the Maheśa Yogī, I have converted many of his disciples. Now when I go back I want to do more, in Sidney. Anyway, the main, what won them over was that they had never been told what is the responsibility of the disciple and what is the responsibility of the Guru. They had no idea, of that relationship, because they have no concept of personal relationship between the Guru and the disciple. He’s māyāvādī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, all māyāvādī.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: So Mahārāja, if you would give us permission, we may take your leave now.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Take some prasādam.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Yes. And then we’ll go back to Māyāpur. And thank you very, very much. When I come here though I haven’t been here since this visit with Guru Mahārāja in nineteen seventy seven but I feel enlivened now in my preaching. Now I feel inspired. I have lots of ammunition to preach, after hearing your ambrosial words.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The more you will engage yourself busily to the business of propaganda the more you will get the supply from upper house.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Ha, ha. And I feel that you are the representative of that upper house.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: So thank you very much.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ________________ Caru Swāmī.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Yes. I promise you we’ll take care of that as soon as we get over this little technical difficulty, we’ll...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Generally, I begin work in the day ofratha-yātrā, during rainy season.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: You begin then?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ratha-yātrā.

 

Bhakti Caru Swāmī: There’s preference to start the work on Ratha-yātrā.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: All right. So by then, whatever we have we’ll...

 

Bhakti Caru Swāmī: Mahārāja, Bhāvānanda Mahārāja __________________________ [?]

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

This is another miracle Mahārāja, this is another miracle. That such an elevated pure devotee as yourself would deign to embrace a mlecchalike me. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

End of 79.00.01.A

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.00.01.B

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

(Approximately 2.25 minutes of Bengali, with ślokas; then bhajans until 4.35 minutes into the recording)

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: According to the degree of eagerness, the valuation will be adjusted.

 

eka kṛṣṇa-nāme yata pāpa hare, pātakī sādhya nāhi tata pāpa kare

 

[“No sinner can commit as much sin as one Name of Kṛṣṇa can destroy.”]

 

nāmno 'sya yāvatī śaktiḥ pāpa-nirharaṇe hareḥ / tāvat karttuṁ na śaknoti pātakaṁ pātakī janaḥ

[Kūrma Purāṇa]

 

    The sinner cannot commit so much sin, what even one word, the Divine Word, the Divine Name can...

 

Devotee: Simply, we should have that much confidence; one should have that much confidence.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, śraddhā.

 

sakala chāḍiyā bhāi, śraddhādevīra guṇa gāi, yanra kṛpa bhakti dite pare

 

    Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says: “Leave aside everything else, but only concentrate in śraddhā.”

 

Devotee: Gītā says, yo yac chraddhaḥ sa eva saḥ.

 

[sattvānurūpā sarvasya, śraddhā bhavati bhārata

śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ puruṣo, yo yac chraddhaḥ sa eva saḥ]

 

    [“O Bhārata, all men have a particular type of faith according to their individual mentalities. The very nature of the living being is based on faith - their internal and external nature is modelled according to their faith. Therefore, their nature may be discerned according to the manner of worship or reverence in which they have faith.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 17.3]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yo yac chraddhaḥ sa eva saḥ.

 

Devotee: Only śraddhā is the criterion by which one should be judged.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That is the criterion.

 

Devotee: By which he should be judged.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, be judged, śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ puruṣo, yo yac chraddhaḥ sa eva saḥ.

 

Devotee: And Bhāgavatam also says that even if one is a caṇḍālaand he’s Kṛṣṇa conscious, whereas a brāhmaṇa devoid of Kṛṣṇa bhakti, the caṇḍālais on a higher level.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: He can be a Guru.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: But not the brāhmaṇa who’s devoid of Kṛṣṇa bhakti.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya, / yei kṛṣṇa-tattva vettā sei guru haya.

 

    [“Whether a person is a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī, or a śūdra, if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is to be accepted as Guru.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 8.127]

 

Devotee: Kṛṣṇadās Kavirāja, in Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mahāprabhu Himself says to Rāmānanda, kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya, / yei kṛṣṇa-tattva vettā sei guru haya.

 

Devotee: And the Bhāgavatam has gone a step further, here is said caṇḍālaeven.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: There is the body. There is the body.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ___________ in Gītā __________ ye ‘pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ.

 

[māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya, ye ‘pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās, te ‘pi yānti parāṁ gatim]

 

    [“O son of Pṛthā, low-born persons of degraded lineage, women, merchants, or labourers - they also attain the supreme destination by taking full refuge in Me.”] [Bhagavad-gītā, 9.32]

 

Devotee: Ye ‘pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās, te ‘pi yānti parāṁ gatim. In this way it has been described, but not that he will be a Guru like that. There is no description like that, I think; but in Bhāgavatam, as Caru Mahārāja has said just now.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja:

 

aho bata śva-paco ’to garīyān, yaj-jihvāgre vartate nāma tubhyam
tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā
, brahmānūcur nāma gṛṇanti ye te

 

[“O Lord! How glorious are they whose tongues always chant Your Holy Name! Even if born in a family of dog eaters, such persons are worshippable. Those who chant the Holy Name of Your Lordship must have performed all kinds of austerities and sacrifices. They must have all the good qualities of the Āryans, or civilised men. They must have bathed in all the holy places, studied the Vedas, and fulfilled everything required of those who are qualified to chant the Vedas and perform yajña.”]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 3.33.7]

 

yena janma sataih purvam vasudevah sanarcitah,

tan-mukhe hari-namani sada tisthanti bharata

 

    [O descendant of Bharata! One who has previously worshipped Lord Vasudeva in hundreds of lifetimes can now chant the Holy Name eternally.] [Hari-bhakti-vilasa] & [Gaudiya Kanthahara, 17.21]

 

Aho bata śva-paco ’to garīyān, even he may be a caṇḍāla, he may eat the flesh, the meat of a dog, śva-paco. Śva-paco ’to garīyān, yaj-jihvāgre vartate nāma tubhyam. If it is possible that no Name is in his tongue, tepus tapas te, apparently we do not find any penance in him. No, no. In previous births he has already finished that course, tepus tapas te. Juhuvuḥ, he’s not eligible to perform any yajña. No, no. In his previous birth he has finished the course of yajña. Then, juhuvuḥ sasnur, we do not find that he’s visiting any tīrtha, holy place, and taking bath in the holy water, holy river. No, no. Already he has finished all those...

 

Devotee: That course; already passed.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...in previous births. Sasnur āryā, the Vedic customs, practices, is not found in him. He has already, the āryā, the Vedic sadācāra, in his previous births he observed all these Vedic practices. Brahmānūcur, he’s not eligible to pronounce the Veda, the smṛti, but that was also finished in previous...

 

Devotee: He’s beyond that now.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Brahmānūcur nāma, then only the faith in the Name of the Lord can come; all automatically done. Tan-mukhe hari-namani sada tisthanti bharata.

 

Devotee: Even the Bhāgavatam says, pada panka para __________________________________ [?] One who has got the dust of the lotus feet of the Lord, you see he’s also not bound by these Vedic schedules; he’s been freed by that also. Though he doesn’t go to the wrong deeds, but so says the Bhāgavatam, he’s not bound by those things, even _________________________ as regards the Lord, conveniencey arises.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. In Ajāmila _______ also it is mentioned.

 

Devotee: Pardon.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ajāmila _____________ in conclusion also it is mentioned.

 

sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor, niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgi yair iha
na te yamaṁ pāśa-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān
, svapne ’pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa-niṣkṛtāḥ

 

[“Although not having fully realised Kṛṣṇa, persons who have even once surrendered completely unto His lotus feet and who have become attracted to His name, form, qualities, and pastimes are completely freed of all sinful reactions, for they have thus accepted the true method of atonement. Even in dreams, such surrendered souls do not see Yāmarāja or his order carries, who are equipped with ropes to bind the sinful.”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 6.1.19]

 

prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni, nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham
na niṣpunanti rājendra
, surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ

 

[“My dear King, as a pot containing liquor cannot be purified even if washed in the waters of many rivers, non devotees cannot be purified by processes of atonement even if they perform them very well.”]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 6.1.18]

 

All other practices cannot really purify, but the remembrance of Kṛṣṇa, however slight it may be, it will relieve us from all past dealings, and make us…

Hari mukta pare upasya mana pan cesta hari nama samsaya [?]

And Sanātana Goswāmī also says:

 

jayati jayati nāmānanda rūpam murarer, viramita nija dharma dhyāna pujyadhi yatna

katham api sakṛdāttam muktidaṁ prānināṁ yat, paramāmṛtam ekaṁ jīvanaṁ bhuṣanaṁ me

 

[Sanātana Goswāmī says: “Let ecstasy in the service of the Divine Name be victorious. If somehow we can come in contact with that sound, nāma rupaṁ murāreḥ, then all our other activities will be paralysed; we will have no necessity of performing any other activity. Our many variegated duties will have no importance to us at all if we can achieve the service of the Divine Name of Kṛṣṇa.”]

[Bṛhat-Bhāgavatāmṛta, 1.1.9]

 

Devotee: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu put the whole percentage on the Name; Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The whole percentage put on the Nāma, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, based wholly and solely on Nāma, Nāma saṅkīrtana.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. Sanātana Goswāmī says, “jayati jayati nāmānanda rūpam murarer, let the ecstasy in the service of the Holy Name have all glory. All glory to the Divine Name of the Lord. Why? Viramita nija dharma dhyāna pujyadhi yatna, if one can get a little taste of that sort of divine bliss, then his charm for all these religious activities vanishes. What are they? Viramita nija dharma, his respective duties what he has got in his present position, dharma, this varṇāśrama dharma, karma-kāṇḍa, niskarm varṇāśrama dharma phala. Dharma dhyāna, it covers the yogīs and the jñānīs. It is not necessary when the grace of the Name has arisen in ones heart. Then he does not feel any charm for meditation, or this sāṅkhyajñāna. That is, the bliss of renunciation of the material aspiration, dhyāna pujyadhi. Then pūjā, arcana, that is covering the Rāmānuja sampradāya, they’re fond; and the Nimbarka also, they’re very fond of paricarjya and arcana, pūjā. When one gets the grace of the Holy Name, he becomes indifferent in other services, even including pūjāand arcana.

 

Devotee: He’s overwhelmed in the transcendental bliss you see. He doesn’t get the time even to turn his head in this way or that way.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. So Mahāprabhu says:

 

ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

[śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ

sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam]

 

    [“The Holy Name of Kṛṣṇa cleanses the mirror of the heart and extinguishes the fire of misery in the forest of birth and death. As the evening lotus blooms in the moon's cooling rays, the heart begins to blossom in the nectar of the Name. And at last the soul awakens to its real inner treasure - a life of love with Kṛṣṇa. Again and again tasting nectar, the soul dives and surfaces in the ever-increasing ocean of ecstatic joy. All phases of the self of which we may conceive are fully satisfied and purified, and at last conquered by the all-auspicious influence of the Holy Name of Kṛṣṇa.”] [Śikṣāṣṭakam, 1]

 

    The karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa finishes. Ceto-darpaṇa means vaidic karma-kāṇḍa_________ niskarma ____________________ The first result of Nāma bhajan is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ ________

    The second stride covering the jñāna-kāṇḍa, bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ.

 

Devotee: Mukti also considered...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mukti is attained by the...

...

Devotees: _______________________________________________________________________ [?]

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When the inner-most self has sprung up from the clutches of māyā of twofold, exploitation and renunciation, and it is settled there, vidyā-vadhū, for jīvanam, it supplies the very life, vitality, in that life. Still it is necessary, śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁvidyā-vadhū-jīvanam, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ. Now, prava mukti, very meagre his position; a speck, sees himself to be like an atom in an ocean of joy, ānandāmbudhi, and that is increasing, everybody progressing.

 

Devotee: Prati-padaṁ.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prati-padaṁpūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ. And every step, nava-yauvana, every step. When he’s taking the Name it seems to him newer and newer and it never becomes stale. Always new, kaiśor ___________________________________ Always progressing nature.

 

Devotee: Because the Lord is non different from His Name, so in a way, the Ajit, the Lord is before him. He’s niyamitra, no one else.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, ever increasing.

 

Devotee: Ever increasing, evergreen.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Evergreen, ever new.

 

Devotee: Ever new, no-one except Kṛṣṇa.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ, sarvātma-snapanaṁ. Two-fold meanings; sarvātma, who attends all our deeds purified, and sarvātma, every point in the system of the sādhaka is purified.

 

Devotee: Every single atom; every single atom.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Every step, every stage, every strata, in every point in the conception of our body conception seems to be purified, sarvātma-snapanaṁ.

Atma dehi jito jive sarvo paramatmane [?]

Ātmā has got many-fold meanings. In all its meanings it is purified. It seems that my body’s being purified, my mind is being purified, my reason – judgement is being purified, my ego is being purified, my whole existence is being purified.

 

Devotee: Ajit, the Name Mahāprabhu has given everything.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: Mahāprabhu has given everything. Nothing more can be wanted.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, everything, nothing more one can conceive. And a very simple way take the Name.

 

kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrttanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

 

[Śukadeva Goswāmī tells Parīkṣit Mahārāja: “O King, the age of Kali, the repository of all evils, has but one glorious characteristic: in this age, those who simply chant the Holy Name of Kṛṣṇa are liberated and reach the Supreme Lord.”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 12.3.51]

 

kaliṁ sabhājayanty āryā, guṇa jñāḥ sāra-bhāginaḥ

yatra saṅkīrtanenaiva, sarva-svārtho 'bhilabhyate

 

    [“Those who are actually advanced in knowledge are able to appreciate the essential value of this age of Kali. Such enlightened persons worship Kali-yuga because in this fallen age all perfection of life can easily be achieved by the performance of saṅkīrtana.”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 5.36]

 

kṛtādiṣu prajā rājan, kalāv icchanti sambhavam

kalau khalu bhaviṣyanti, nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ

kvacit kvacin mahā-rāja, draviḍeṣu ca bhūriśaḥ

 

    [“My dear King, the inhabitants of Satya-yuga and other ages eagerly desire to take birth in this age of Kali, since in this age there will be many devotees of the Supreme Lord, Nārāyaṇa. These devotees will appear in various places but will be especially numerous in South India.”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 5.38]

 

Kṛtādiṣu, even in golden ages also, intelligent people they hanker after a birth in Kali because the Kali has got a special grant from the Lord. That anyhow if one can take the Name of the Lord then he attains the highest position. Kṛtādiṣu prajā rājan, kalāv icchanti sambhavam, kalau khalu bhaviṣyanti, nārāyaṇa.

Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

...

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When Swāmī Mahārāja came here the last time he told that, “Jayapataka is requesting me that I shall stay here and he will construct a building for myself, and have thought that there will be two compartments. In one portion I shall stay and in another portion you will stay.” He told.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Hmm. I remember.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I shall have to go sometimes around the world for preaching purpose and you will remain there. You don’t like much to go hither thither, you will stay there. ___________________ [?]

Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that small room...

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: He stayed there.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But two hours also in the noon, the group is rest there, and coming back he told, “That’s a very beautiful, good room.” Then it came in my mind, he has gone through the world and so many big buildings he has seen, and this what he says it is a very, very peculiar.

 

Devotees: [Laughter]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Śrīla Govinda Mahārāja: Bhāvānanda Mahārāja________________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ________________________ It is roughly finished, the Nat Mandir.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: I explained, we’re having some technical problem, but that will be cleared up shortly. Then on Monday someone can come and pick up a cheque.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What do you think to be the estimation?

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: To finish?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, to finish.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: I think fifty thousand rupees.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Fifty thousand.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: I think will finish it.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And this is very high, market is very high.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: High. With marble stone because the mosaic is not good.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And because it is now connected, the finishing is connected with your divine master. And it is all around, this is spread.

 

Śrīla Govinda Mahārāja: Bhāvānanda Mahārāja _______________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: As you like.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: As we like, we like to give it all, but we’re not able due to do these technical difficulties. Kali yuga is...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Big life size portrait also of Swāmī Mahārāja you want to...

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Yes. We’ll have that done I think in America, and brought over.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: By our Art Department in Los Angeles.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And I’ll be grateful also if you can supply with Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and Guru Mahārāja also.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Oh yes; three.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Swāmī Mahārāja, Prabhupāda, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: In one month finally we will begin on Guru Mahārāja’s puṣpa samādhiconstruction, next month construction will begin. It is a very grand affair, this samādhi, in Māyāpur; two hundred feet high.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And length and breadth?

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: I’m not so sure, but it’s very big. The mūrti of Guru Mahārāja will be on a siṁhāsanathat is eighty feet high, eighty feet tall.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Eighty feet high?

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Yes, the siṁhāsanafor the mūrti.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: How high will be the door, how high will be the main gate, entering?

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: The main gate is seventy five feet high.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Seventy five.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: High.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The .____________ of the siṁhāsanamay not be higher than the gate.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: It may? May not? We can make that adjust...

 

Bhakti Caru Swā: He said it may be higher. That is because the entrance into the temple goes down and up.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Goes down and up, yes. And also in Vṛndāvana, you know I have been put in charge of our Vṛndāvana centre also.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, I heard.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: I like it there, very nice; Vṛndāvana.

 

Bhakti Caru Swāmī: And ever since Bhāvānanda Mahārāja took charge of Vṛndāvana, the condition of the Vṛndāvana temple also has improved to a very great extent.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Very good. Both Navadvīpa and Vṛndāvana, in charge of both Navadvīpa and Vṛndāvana?

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Two-fold Vṛndāvana

 

End of 79.00.01.B

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.03.00.A

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...Twenty six, about the month of August, perhaps, I saw him first, at Calcutta. And then, twenty seven, during Gaura Pūrṇimā I came to Māyāpur...

 

[This recording is too faint, for this transcriber, to be able to transcribe every word accurately]

 

End of 79.03.00.A

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.03.00.B

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Devotee: ...again and again, read again and again so that I don’t forget, and become very conscious about these instructions.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But sincerity is necessary. Only we try to make our best to be the proper medium. Our duty is to make us converted into a proper medium, for these words. Sometimes we may not know what is the meaning of the word, but the meaning will pass through me to another person who’s being so fortunate. What is passing through me, I may not know.

Mahāprabhu says to Sanātana Goswāmī that, “I am speaking like a mad man. I feel that so many things are passing through Me to you, to meet you. You are a favourite of Kṛṣṇa. Passing through Me, many valuable waves are passing through Me to you, Sanātana. I feel Kṛṣṇa is extending His grace to you through Me. I am like a mad man ____________________ [?] Vyāso vetti na vetti vā. Sometimes we are medium, we are medium___________________ [?]

 

[aham vedmi śuko vetti, vyāso vetti na vetti vā

bhaktyā bhāgavataṁ grāhyaṁ na buddhyā na ca ṭīkayā]

 

[Lord Śiva says: “I know the true purpose of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam; Śukadeva, the son and disciple of Vyāsadeva, knows it thoroughly, and the author of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Vyāsadeva may or may not know the meaning. The real purpose of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is very difficult to conceive and can only be known through bhakti.”] [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, 24.313]

 

Only we shall try our best to… [01:55]

 

End of 79.03.00.B

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.03.01.A

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ahaṅkāra-yutānāṁ hi, madhye pavvata-rāśayaḥ.

 

[ahaṅkāra-nivṛttānāṁ, keśavo nahi dūragaḥ / ahaṅkāra-yutānāṁ hi, madhye pavvata-rāśayaḥ]

 

    [“The Supreme Lord Keśava remains in the company of persons who are free from a mundane conception of life; but there appears to be a great mountain range between the self-asserting egotists and the Lord.”] [Brahma-vaivarta-Purāṇa] [Śrī Prapanna-jīvanāmṛtam, 2.5]

 

Conception of separatism, Ete hatagiya javatiya asa midara mor [?]

Vastu tusakila te jiv yeha noi [?]

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.

 

[Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja and a few devotees speak Bengali (?) for about 5:10 minutes]

...

Devotee: The disciples that you already initiated, is it possible for them...hand them over to somebody else?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: To hand them over to another Ācārya?

 

Devotee: Yes, is it possible?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I shall say it afterwards.

 

Devotee: Oh. According to...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I reserve, the decision I reserve. Afterwards I shall give my opinion...

...

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...there, the discussion going on. Let them come to an adjustment within themselves. It will be very good and well. If any thing’s to be said, I shall say it after. Ke?

 

Devotee: __________________ [?]

 

[More Bengali (?) for about thirty five seconds]

 

Devotee: Separate from Kṛṣṇa we wanted to enjoy. That is why we came down in this material world. The cause of the fall-down of jīvātmā is because he wanted to enjoy separately from Kṛṣṇa.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ________________________________________________________ [?]

Once I put a question to our Guru Mahārāja. “Guru Mahārāja, that about the conclusion of Vraja līlā, Sanātana Goswāmī and Rūpa Goswāmī differ. Then what is the explanation for this?”

    He summarily told, “If everything could be harmonised within our decision then what is the necessity of saying that it is adhokṣaja?” That was the answer.

    A far as possible, we have a jurisdiction of the sight, a jurisdiction of the ear. If sound is more intensified we can’t hear, and very less we can’t hear; within a degree we can know. We can hear, we can see, within a particular degree of light. Is it not?

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Just as our senses work within a limited space, so our brain, thinking, and our soul also, within a particular limit it is free to work. Above that, transcending that, it can’t contain, can’t concede itself. So we shall try to be satisfied within our limitation. And so, Mahāprabhu has emphasised in this term, acintya bhedābheda, acintya. The stress laid on the word acintya bhedābheda. You won’t venture, you finite beings, you won’t venture to captivate the whole thing within your first. Then you’ll lose your status. Your natural, jñāna-sunya, maximum, what has been given to you, utilise your best for that.

 

athavā bahunaitena, kiṁ jñātena tavārjjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat

 

    [“But Arjuna, what is the need of your understanding this elaborate knowledge of My almighty grandeur? By My fractional expansion as the Supreme Soul of material nature, Mahā-Viṣṇu (Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu), I remain supporting this entire universe of moving and stationary beings.”]

    [Bhagavad-gītā, 10.42]

 

“Whatever you can conceive, it is in My One negligent portion.”

 

    You try to get your maximum which is allotted for your lot. And so, jñāna-sunya-bhakti, if you like to give more stress to knowing everything, then what portion of ānanda, the player is attached to you, you’ll lose that, so jñāna-sunya-bhakti. That is the highest realisation for everyone, everyone; only with the exception of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī.

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, when you say jñāna-sunya, is that speculating knowledge?

 

Devotee: No.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Jñāna-sunya-bhakti.

 

Devotee: Jñāna-sunya-bhakti means not. _______________ [?] Any rationality, in thought, because of Kṛṣṇa’s love; if you’re loving Kṛṣṇa, he does not want to know why he loves Kṛṣṇa, he loves Him.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Whatever you get by the spontaneous activity of the environment, you work within that _________ [?]

 

Devotee: ________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In a constitution, you have been attached to a duty, and you will try to satisfy your obligation. You fully apply yourself with that jurisdiction; the maximum attention you should give to your duty you’re attached to. Submission.

 

Devotees: _______________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja:

 

jānanta eva jānantu, kiṁ bahūktyā na me prabho
manaso vapuṣo vāco
, vaibhavaṁ tava go-caraḥ

 

    [“There are people who say, “I know everything about Kṛṣṇa.” Let them think that way. As far as I am concerned, I do not wish to speak very much about this matter. O my Lord, let me say this much: As far as Your opulences are concerned, they are all beyond the reach of my mind, body and words.”]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 10.14.38]

 

Brahmā says, “Those that think that they know much, let them foolishly think like that. But it is my conclusion that I do not know a little bit of it. I do not understand Your ways even a little bit. This is my findings.” Brahmā, the Ādi Guru, he says like that.

    Infinite character from all respects, from all respects it is infinite, and only through grace I ______ and I must be satisfied with that, to utilise that. What is given to me, I shall try to adjust myself within that limitation. My perfection is only there.

 

(More Bengali for about 2:20 minutes)

 

Devotee: There is one question Mahārāja, this is one of the acintya questions. In one of Prabhupāda’s books, Śrīla Prabhupāda explained that the spiritual master’s body, it is beyond the three modes of material nature.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: It is not affected by the birth, death, old age and disease. And in another place Prabhupāda mentions the mortal body of the spiritual master. And Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu also when He danced with the body of Haridās Ṭhākura, He also said that He eternal exists in the body of Haridās Ṭhākura.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. So ‘the mortal body of Gurudeva’, it is not a happy word.

 

Devotee: It is not?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Not happy; happy expression. His body is sat-cit-ānanda, it is eternal. We should, we are to consider like that, because sometimes it is mentioned only to make intelligible in our court, according to our court. But really we should think that it is all spiritual, nothing mortal. And to consider it as mortal, that is an offence to the spiritual substance. Because we are not acquainted with the ways and nature of the spiritual substance, it is due to our defective mind and senses that in terms of these worldly substances we ascribe or describe him.

 

Devotee: We reflect our imperfections.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, we cannot but do, so sometimes we say, but we are in the process of training to get that conception, that it is all eternal, not mortal. We are going to be a member of the eternal domain. Already we are a member of the mortal domain. We are accustomed to think everything in terms of mortality. But we must have a transit from here and we should enter into the spiritual world. And the nature of the existence of appearance of that world is immortal and of constant nature. Constant nature, not changing; it may change but that is also a spiritual change. But not vanishing, not a victim of any time and age there, because it is eternal.

 

Devotee: The point is that within our conception of time we cannot understand eternity.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. So we must have a training within ourselves to have a conception of the truth.

 

Devotee: We try to bring eternity to within our limited understanding.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes. As much as possible we shall try, being surrounded by the mortal changing element, we shall try to have a conception of the eternal non changeable substance. So we should always think, the Guru, the Vaiṣṇava, the Śrī Mūrti, they’re all of eternal nature. And they have come down here to make us acquainted with the nature of eternity, though we are in the mortal area, the area of changing, every second.

 

Devotee: Prabhupāda used to say that anybody who thinks that the Guru is mortal, even the Guru’s body is mortal, then he’s completely wrong.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, wrong.

 

Devotee: Because he’s in contact with Kṛṣṇa constantly, so his body is also spiritualised and it is transcendental. But, due to certain laws of nature he leaves his body. That’s why he’s put to samādhi. The principle or the siddhānta of samādhi is that because...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You see, we made one Ācārya, Utaradi [?] Maṭh in Madras, Utaradi [?] Maṭh in Urupi [?]. A big Ācārya, Satyadan Tīrtha. Bon Mahārāja, myself, and Hayagrīva Prabhu, that is Mādhava Mahārāja. Then discussion going on, and in the discussion he told that in Śrī Mūrti, the Śālagrāma, God is within. We told that Śālagrāma Himself is God.

 

Deho dehi vibhagayam nisyare bhidyate karchit [?]

 

    The body and one possessing the body, this sort of distinction is not in God. The possessor of body and the body possessed, this sort of distinction is not with God. But he told “No. The Śālagrāma, if I strike with a club, then it will be smashed.” That Ācārya told. We all put our palms to the ears. This should not be heard. This sort of statement should not enter into your ear. And all were perplexed. There were many Bakhils [?] and Barristers and others, big disciples of that gentleman, that Ācārya, they were all perplexed. “What do these sannyāsīs say? Our Guru Mahārāja has given a statement and they’re closing their ears.” Then (Hiranya Madyācārya?) he has spoken like that.

 

Devotee: That is not true Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then I put one question to him. When Kṛṣṇa departed, the Jara struck an arrow and blood oozes. But is that blood material blood?

    “No, no.”

    Then why? We are seeing with these eyes that blood oozing, material blood, material body. Is that material?

    “No, no: never.”

    It is also like that.

 

Sita raksati maya hara ravana [?]

 

    One disciple of Rāmānuja sampradāya, when Mahāprabhu was wandering in the South, he told that, “I don’t like to keep my life any longer.”

    “Why?”

    “That rākṣasa, that demon Rāvaṇa, he took away Mother Janaki, Sītā, and I am to hear in the ear that thing. I won’t like to keep my life.”

    Then Mahāprabhu told, “No. Don’t be afraid of that. What to speak of taking Sītā by the demon, even the demon cannot see Her.”

 

aprākṛta vastu nahe prākṛta-gocara[veda-purāṇete ei kahe nirantara]

 

     [“All the Vedas and Purāṇascontinually warn against considering divine or non material substance to fall within the category of material nature.”] [Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-līlā, 9.194]

 

This is all spiritually. Mortal eye cannot see the spiritual substance; only the māyā. That māyā, that illusory image has been taken away by Rāvaṇa, the demon. The spiritual lady cannot be touched by the matter. So it is like that. Our eyes are deceived, by spiritual colour, and by spiritual sound, spiritual touch. But only by the inconceivable power of Kṛṣṇa, that spiritual and material can come in any connection.

 

[More Bengali (?) for about forty five seconds]

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, avibhāva of the spiritual master, what does that mean; the day he actually took this physical frame of this material world, or what?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Avibhāva, no, avibhāva means generally it is for our purpose serving, avibhāva appearance that he came in the experience of our senses. That is the time of avibhāva. Otherwise he was _____________ [?]

 

[More Bengali (?) for about 2:05 minutes]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Come within the jurisdiction of our senses.

 

Devotee: That means, when he, achar, when a date is chosen, one particular date is chosen; or?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes? Senses, that is not of any individual, but as general. He may appear but I may not see him that day, so I saw another day, after ten years or after fifty years I may see. But that is not the day of appearance, appearance in the surface, where I am living. In this way it should be...

 

Devotee: So more or less, when he first took dīkṣā, then, can that be considered as...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The day of appearance, no. That is not a day of appearance, my connection with him _______________ [?]

 

Devotee: So who decides that now?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who will take dīkṣā?

 

Devotee: No. Who will decide that appearance day?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Appearance day, it may come from him, or any other Vaiṣṇava.

 

Devotee: Ah, I see. And one more thing Mahārāja; the disciple, when he’s doing Jaya Guru praṇāma, he may use before the name of his Guru, OViṣṇu-Pāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Aṣṭottara-śataŚrīŚrīmad, he can do it, it is possible for the disciple to...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The disciple, formally, when he’s mentioning the name of Guru he’ll do in that way, but not usually or not always. Sometimes in a ceremonial occasion he will say like that.

 

Devotee: And every day after the āratīwhen the Guru...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You see, even you take the name of Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa, not OViṣṇu-Pāda, all these things, not always.

 

Devotee: No, no.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And when Yaśodā is accosting Kṛṣṇa, not OViṣṇu-Pāda. Priti is the highest standard. These are all formalities.

 

Devotee: Yes, I know. I was, my question was this because I wanted to know whether it was actually authorised, such a title to give to Guru?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: The second question Mahārāja…

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Śāstrameans always for them who are eligible for that. Śāstradoes not work on everyone. When one has realised his proper position, śāstra withdraws from him. His spontaneous nature guides him in rāgānugā.

 

Vaidhi bhakta vikarestu ragavi bhavana vidhu [?]

 

   So long as the innate, automatic tendency to serve the Lord is not aroused, the śāstra, the rules and regulations should be applied to a person up to that time. And when the internal, spontaneous flow of love has already been disclosed in flow, then no śāstricrules can have any application on him. Do you follow?

 

Devotee: Yes Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vaidhi bhakta vikarestu, in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindu, Rūpa Goswāmī writes.

_______________________________________________________________________________ [?]

 

    Every activity, every action, has some purpose. The lowest stage is bhaya, fear. In the beasts, animals, they work out of fear. Then, men also, in the lowest stage they work out of fear, bhaya. Then, asa, prospect, next higher, the principle of pushing us to our activity is prospect. Next higher is sense of duty. And the highest motive is rāga __________________ Sense of duty, then spontaneous love. Bhaya, asa, kartiboditi, and rāga, these are the four fold principles which helps us to go on in our activities; according to four stages. The lowest stage is we work out of fear, then better is prospect, then next higher is sense of duty, and the highest is love. These are the four principles that are behind all our activities, according to stages.

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, one more question. The title of Viṣṇu-Pāda, can it be had by anyone? I mean any Guru, anybody whose initiating, may he be entitled to the title of Viṣṇu-Pāda?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Where we can see the connection of Infinite, that is the particular position of Infinite, of Viṣṇu, then we can take it as Viṣṇu-Pāda. Especially Guru, śikṣāGuru is also there. If I find the same thing as we find in my Guru is there, the presence of Guru is there. Guru is Bhagavān, he’s God Himself, or His highest potency, as Rādhikā, or in another, Subala or Yaśodā, the highest representation of the servitors. That is to be located. If I can trace that thing in any place, I can consider the śikṣāGuru one and the same, at the same place. I give that sort of respect and respect will go to one place; God and His highest servitors. Predominating and Predominated Moiety. Kṛṣṇa is the predominating half, and the other predominated half is Rādhārāṇī, predominated. Infinite has two aspects; potency and enjoyer, predominating enjoyer, and predominated half is śakti, svarūpa śakti potency. One is enjoying and another is being enjoyed, and one half is enjoying; the power, positive and negative. Mahābhāva, rasa-rāja. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

[The last 3:50 minutes are in Bengali (?)]

 

End of 79.03.01.A

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 79.03.01.B

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

(Bengali spoken for about 17:15 minutes)

 

Devotee: It is not clear, what is the sannyāsa position within our Society now?

 

Devotee: You want to know from Mahārāja? Mahārāja, his question is, “What is the position of a sannyāsī in the Gauḍīya sampradāya?”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The general sannyāsī is to be called a sannyāsī who has dedicated his thought, word, and deed, in the service of the Lord. He should be considered as a sannyāsī in the Gauḍīya system, or mission. But that is not all. There also should be a gradation amongst sannyāsīs. That is according to the degree, the intensity of self dedication to the Lord. But the general position is that in general who has dedicated his thought, word, and deed, kāya-mano-vākya, only for the service of the Lord, he can be considered a sannyāsī, in our society. He won’t go back...

 

Devotee: Sorry, can you repeat what question you asked.

 

Devotee: __________________ [?]

 

Devotee: Yes, Mahārāja is saying, he’s telling Mahārāja that probably you want to know what is the position here of the sannyāsīs, in ISKCON.

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, his question is, “What is the position of sannyāsīs in ISKCON? What should be their duty now that Śrīla Prabhupāda is not present, he’s aprakat. So in that case; but specially this situation as you know...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We shall expect that who are supposed to represent Prabhupāda’s will, future will for propaganda, that body we should obey. This is a general thing. It is expected that the body who represents the future will of Prabhupāda, and nominated by him, generally, we should abide by their decisions, in a general sense.

 

Devotee: What should be the procedure to take Mahārāja?

 

Devotee: That is the procedure.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Redactive method, descending method. Advice is descending from the domain of the Lord to this world. We shall try to remember this, and we shall try to submit us to that decision, setting aside our individual internal suggestions, generally. There maybe, rarely, special cases.

 

Devotee: You see, his problem is, Mahārāja, that now his position is that he’s in South America, and he himself has a South American body; so he was preaching very nicely in South America for Śrīla Prabhupāda. So many young boys became very attached to him.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You see now Swāmī Mahārāja has departed and many intricate questions will arise, in different forms. And before this Svarūpa Dāmodara and that Yaśodānandan, and Pradyumna, and a few persons came to me. Already advised their against the Ācārya Board, they’re not satisfied with their dealings. And I asked them, both parties, if represented come to me then I shall try to help you in the adjustment. But ______ differences that are arising here and there.

 

Devotee: They have already taken your decision.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And if they can solve within them, it is well and good. Amongst themselves, if they can solve the problems that are arising now, if you can solve it within yourself, it is well and good. Because...

 

Devotee: How it is possible Mahārāja? It is not possible because everybody has vested interest. Only a Vaiṣṇava, and a senior Vaiṣṇava...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If it is necessary to solve the problem, any help from my side, I shall try my best from my experience about the association and my meagre śāstric knowledge I shall try to help you. This good will I can express. What more can I do?

 

Devotee: I wanted you to give me advice in this manner, specifically in this manner. When Śrīla Prabhupāda departed, this Ācārya-ship was not clear to many of us. So...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I told that he nominated eleven Ācāryas. And when they came to me I suggested that this Ācārya Board may be expanded according to the necessity of time and space, demand of time and space it may be expanded. And a system should be followed so that the non Ācārya God-brothers, they may have some fair chance to live respectfully in this Mission. We’re having a bitter experience, and through this bitter experience we’re learning something. And with that we may try to help you, if necessary.

 

Devotee: I am having, myself, I am having a bitter experience with the present situation. So...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That Pradyumna, perhaps with twenty points he came to me; in a written note, that these are the objections against the Ācāryas, the practices and behaviour of the Ācāryas. These are, about twenty objections we have got. And perhaps that is being circulated amongst the non Ācārya stalwarts in the Mission.

 

Devotee: I didn’t see that Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: How to control.

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, he has...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What will be the position of the Ācāryas and the Governing Body, and those stalwarts that are outside the Governing Body? The newcomers. Of course, it is a very difficult task to adjust, very difficult. But with the sympathetic attitude of the Ācāryas, and with the śāstric toleration of the non Ācāryas, it can meet together. Śāstric toleration, that is formal necessary toleration, and the sympathetic attitude of the Ācāryas. Both of these two things are required to go on together.

 

Devotee: In my own case Mahārāja...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And the newcomers must be helped. The missionary activities should not be stopped, never should be stopped, then this is necessary, the newcomers should be helped, un grudgingly.

 

Devotee: In the case of myself Mahārāja, I’m a sannyāsī by Śrīla Prabhupāda, and I’m preaching. So I’m preaching in a specific place, and I am, by the Lord’s grace, some people are coming and they are giving some faith, that by following my instructions, they will advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if these people don’t want to follow anybody else, how are they to be initiated within Kṛṣṇa consciousness society?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I can’t follow.

 

Devotee: Through his preaching, the Lord is sending many souls who are taking to the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: And these new souls who are coming to this path, they have placed their trust and faith on him.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

 

Devotee: That he will take them to a higher platform of realisation. So now, he...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, direct. And he does not see any superior soul to whom he can take them, and recommend.

 

Devotee: Right. Previously he could take them to Śrīla Prabhupāda and place them at his lotus feet. But now, who can he go... and even if he goes, the souls, they do not accept them.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I have seen so many who are non Ācārya, but the Ācārya people they’re not coming to me, so if we are to live together then some adjustment should be made. How to go on? Otherwise the dissension, that is very easy, but that is not desirable so much. If united we stand, that will be better. Otherwise dissension must come, separation must come, but that is not so very desirable, especially so soon, so quick.

 

Devotee: One point is this Mahārāja, then for example, I see within...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So I like to meet both the camps, both the camps.

 

Devotee: Yes, we have suggested, Bhakti Caru Mahārāja and myself have suggested, and I actually spoke to Svarūpa Dāmodara who is a GBC, who also has given agenda for the meeting, GBC meeting agenda. I should have brought it and could have shown it to you.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But in the meeting...

 

Devotee: So in the agenda he has mentioned...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ācārya party, not majority.

 

Devotee: No.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Non Ācārya is majority.

 

Devotee: Yes.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So, you may not be afraid too much.

 

Devotee: No. So he has placed in the agenda, he has mentioned in the agenda that, “I propose that all of us go and consult and take the good advice of Śrīdhara Mahārāja.” He has mentioned in his agenda for this meeting that, “We should all go because there’s nobody else to guide, and Śrīla Prabhupāda specifically mentions Śrīdhara Mahārāja’s pure good name, that we should go to him for spiritual advice. For anything we should come to him. So let us go.” He has suggested in that meeting so now I don’t know how they will see it.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What will be the fate of that resolution?

 

(More Bengali for about 50 seconds)

 

Devotee: How many disciple do you have now? Three zero. _________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: __________________________________________________ [?]

 

Devotee: He said, “Before you took your disciples, before you gave dīkṣā, did you feel some sort of inspiration from inside, the caitya Guru, of Prabhupāda, telling you to give them initiation?”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Within, any inspiration?

 

Devotee: Yes, it’s much like you’re a sannyāsī, you’re preaching, people are coming...

 

Devotee: No, not like that. Sometimes Prabhupāda, through the medium of...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Some spiritual conscience has directed you.

 

Devotee: Were you convinced that actually Prabhupāda wanted that from you? Or did you have a dream?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Nothing of the like, only simple spiritual conscience.

 

Devotee: I mean, you are confident that what you have done is the correct thing.

 

Devotee: I still feel it was proper for me to do.

 

Devotee: But spiritually, he conscience was clear, and that his action was in the right...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Accepted by Prabhupāda.

 

Devotee: I want to remain within ISKCON, but in the way they want to put me now, I cannot remain.

 

Devotee: That is another question.

 

Devotee: That is, like he spoke about bitter sentiments.

 

Devotee: No. He said that, I told him that you have taken disciples. First, he asked me whether you had taken disciples or not. So I said yes, you have initiated...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What is the name of that Punjabi sannyāsī?

 

Devotee: Bhakti Caitanya Swāmī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bhakti Caitanya. And his name?

 

Devotee: Paramānanda.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Paramānanda. Only these two have begun already?

 

Devotee: No, there’s one more, Virahaprakāśa Swāmī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Where is he?

 

Devotee: He’s also in South America.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: South America. These three only, has become independently we’re seeing now?

 

Devotee: Yes. They’ve initiated independently.

 

Devotee: ___________________________________ [?]

 

Devotee: They’re trying to put him down, they’re trying to remove him, from ISKCON, but Paramānanda Swāmī, he wants to stay within ISKCON and do his preaching, but they want him to either give up his position or leave.

 

Devotee: And I have already taken the responsibilities so I don’t see how it can be given it up. I see it so cheaply.

 

Devotee: And he’s saying, “Since I have already taken up the responsibility of a Guru, it’s not possible for me to just give it up.”

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Very subtle and difficult questions to be solved. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Devotee: That can be done by yourself, that people can come to you, they have faith, trust in you and you initiate them. Then after you give them to somebody else?

 

Devotees: _____________________________________________________________________ [?]

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Take something, prasādam...

 

Devotees: _______________________________________________ [?]

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...and decision, how it comes.

 

Devotee: We should wait and see.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Wait and see, and also, put your feeling, your position put to the committee, “That this is my position. How do you decide about me?” The central body is there. You put your questions.

 

Devotee: I’m almost sure of their decision.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But still try, to make the best of a bad bargain.

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, I want to bring one contradiction within this existing Committee Body. Guru Mahārāja formed the GBC Body of twenty five members. They’re life-time GBC members. Nobody has the authority or the capacity to remove them from this position, other than Guru Mahārāja himself. And he also made this Governing Body Commission, the sole and supreme authority on all decisions within the ISKCON Society. But the present situation is that the eleven Ācāryas, who are also within this GBC Body, they have formed, although not officially, but in exercising their power, a body within the body, and is more or less controlling all the decisions of the Society. For example, specially on the question of increasing the circle of initiating Gurus, Ācāryas. Actually, this decision should be made by the GBC Body, all twenty five, and not just the eleven.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But have the Ācārya Board accepted the principle that they will expand?

 

Devotee: No. They don’t want to expand.

 

Devotee: It is simply, I will tell you; Bhakti Caru Mahārāja was called by Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, Hṛdayānanda Goswāmī, Bhāvānanda Goswāmī, and two or three, Tamal Kṛṣṇa Goswāmī was also present there. And they asked his opinion as to who should be the initiating Guru of Manipur State. Although the Manipur State is under Svarūpa Dāmodara, he’s the GBC of Manipur, but since he’s not an initiating Guru, they require an initiating Guru residing in that area.

    So Bhakti Caru Mahārāja told them the truth, what he felt. He said, “If you are actually interested in the pracār, the preaching of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the Hari Nāma, then the best person would be to make Svarūpa Dāmodara himself the initiating Guru because the Manipuris, they are a little proud of being Vaiṣṇavas, and original Vaiṣṇavas. And they also have great respect for Svarūpa Dāmodara since he has been to the West and he has a good name, and they will accept him very easily. So considering these practical points, the best thing would be to make him the initiating Guru.” This was his suggestion.

    Of course, no decision has been taken as yet, but they were not very happy with this suggestion. They were, of course only one person, this Hṛdayānanda Goswāmī who was there, he said, “Yes, if Prabhupāda was here probably he would have said that Svarūpa Dāmodara should become that.” He was the only person who actually accepted this proposition.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hṛdayānanda?

 

Devotee: Hṛdayānanda Goswāmī.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: His jurisdiction is where?

 

Devotee: South America.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He’s a recognised Ācārya?

 

Devotee: Yes. He’s one of the eleven.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: One of the eleven. Any precedent of the Ācārya Board, no?

 

Devotee: No. The point is that they have no official committee of Ācāryas.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But any precedent of the Governing Body?

 

Devotee: The President and the Director, so to say, they have Chairman, Vice Chairman, and Secretary. The Chairman is Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, till yesterday.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: For one year; three posts for one year only, and this year Satsvarūpa.

 

Devotee: No, last year was Satsvarūpa, and this year Hṛdayānanda is the Chairman.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And his term will...

 

Devotees: One year, will terminate, will extend to the next Gaura Pūrṇimā festival.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then new such come?

 

Devotee: Yes. Now the new set has taken office, already, as from today.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: From today, this Hṛdayānanda has been, is in the Chair? And the Secretary?

 

Devotee: I don’t know who he is.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vice Chairman and Secretary, three posts together. But from the Chair this proposal has come for expansion. Let me wait and see what is their combined decision, then if I will have anything to say, then I shall say at that time. And they may come to me with some questions then I shall say my opinion is this. What do you think?

 

Devotee: I think that is very good Mahārāja.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: After hearing their decision, then if any suggestion comes to me, I shall say to them. Is it not?

 

Devotee: Yes. After the meeting, I think many devotees, many of the GBCs, I don’t know about the Ācāryas, although Svarūpa Dāmodara has proposed in his agenda that he’s submitted for them, his meeting, within the agenda he has strongly suggested that they should come and...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Take some advice.

 

Devotee: Take some advice from you.

 

End of 79.03.01.B

 

* * * * * * * *

 

Start of 80.00.00.A

 

His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Rakṣaka Śrīdhara Deva Goswāmī Mahārāja

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...surrounded in Goloka and Vaikuṇṭha.

 

yat kinca tina guna pi kota mokama [?]

gosthisamasthe hita sadvanam mayam [?]

mukunda dvaitam lila nikulam phalam [?]

 

    Whatever, Raghunātha Dāsa Goswāmī says, yat kinca tina guna pi kota mokama,whatever is found in Vraja, it may be a straw, guna,a shrub, guna pi kota, an insect or worm. Gosthi samasthe hita, everything there, mukunda dvaitam, they’re friends of Kṛṣṇa, they’re favourite of Kṛṣṇa, beloved of Kṛṣṇa. Why? They’re helping in many ways promoting the performance of līlā of the Divine Couple.

________________________________________________________________________ [?]

    Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyhow, when we shall be, we shall find ourselves in Goloka, in Navadvīpa Dhāma, properly set, then we shall see that everything is performing bhajana, in different rasa, śanta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, and surround by all the servitors of different types of Kṛṣṇa. They’re doing and helping, “do this and this in this way.” It is possible, and then we shall enter Goloka. Svarūpa siddhi and vastu siddhi, two types, first svarūpa siddhi, we shall find ourselves in our bhajan that we are surrounded by all types of __________ members. And vastu siddhi, we’ll be reckoned amongst one of them, permanently established there. In svarūpa siddhi stage we can also deviate, but when we can, by the grace of the Lord, have the position of vastu siddhi, then we are inseparable part, and we cannot be removed from that place, that position. That is permanently settled there, vastu siddhi.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: That is a very long way away.

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: There are five stages of bhajan. First śravaṇa, to listen, to receive news about the process, then varaṇa, to accept that, the second stage, to accept that. Then sādhana, by the stage of acceptance we can be initiated by Gurudeva. And then under his guidance bhajan continues. Then this is sādhana, third. And fourth is āpana, we feel that this is my own thing, this bhajan is the innermost wealth of my thing, āpana. And then prapanna, then we like to distribute it to others. The fifth stage, the last stage. We feel that it should be also given to others, prapanna; five stages. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

Bhāvānanda Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa. My difficulty is that that one particular personality, my Guru Mahārāja, that one particular personality, individual personality, that since he has departed, that I know that philosophically there’s no question of separation, but since he has departed, I have no enthusiasm, so much. Everything I’m doing out of duty. Before, when Prabhupāda was here, then if we were building a, constructing a building, or painting a room, or arranging a festival, and he was always there to accept that service, in his form. Now he’s gone, I know that philosophically that there’s no separation, but still that individual personality of my Guru Mahārāja, since his departure, not as though, what is the word...

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That is a laudable thing, that there may not be any parallel to my Guru Mahārāja, my Divine Master. Another, without him, everything is tasteless to me. That is of course a good quality, everything is tasteless.

    Not only that, Raghunātha dāsa Goswāmī says, after the departure of Rūpa Goswāmī and Sanātana, that, “So many things are coming to devour me. Without my Guru’s presence, the other things that should help me for the bhajana, they’re rather coming to devour. Such is the so intimate relation we had really with Guru Mahārāja. Without him, Kṛṣṇa is also nothing.” Dās Goswāmī says. “Oh Śrī Rādhikā, if You’ll not be propitiated with me, I do not want to have Kṛṣṇa. I want Kṛṣṇa with You. You will serve Kṛṣṇa and I will help You according to Your order. But without You I don’t want Kṛṣṇa. This is a dreadful thing; Kṛṣṇa is a dreadful thing to me if I do not find Yourself and myself under Kṛṣṇa.”

    That is Guru’s position. Without Guru we don’t want Kṛṣṇa. That is really the substance of cid-vilāsa, svarūpa-śakti. Myself and Kṛṣṇa, that is half māyāvādā. So Mira and others, they’re chanting many praise, many songs they’ve composed in praise of Kṛṣṇa, but not for Rādhikā or any other āśraya vigraha. So that is cancelled by Bhaktivinoda’s School, that is all fictitious. Fictitious attempt to worship Kṛṣṇa, because if you want to go to Kṛṣṇa, we must meet first the devotees, the hierarchy of His servitors, then we can approach to Him, not direct approach is possible. He’s surrounded by so many different classes of servitors. So if I have a real approach then I first meet His servitors, then only through them I can go to Him. But the direct approach to Kṛṣṇa, it is a fictitious thing. The svarūpa-śakti is surrounding Him, in different rūpa, in different forms, different groups. So a real devotee, genuine devotee, he’ll want Guru between Kṛṣṇa and himself, Guru in different ranks also. One maybe searching ultimately Rādhārāṇī, so in different, sākhya rasa also Sudama, Sridhama, there; in śanta rasa also, in vātsalya rasa, Nanda, Yaśodā, they’re direct first hand servitors surrounding Him. And we, second, then third position, we may try to have the services of Kṛṣṇa; and never direct.

    The conception of Guru is rather a form of transformation. Sometimes he may show in a particular position, sometimes higher, sometimes then again higher. “I am here for you, waiting, come.” In this way a relative term, Guru, a relative position he has got. In different forms he may appear, “Oh. I come here. I am searching. Don’t you recognise me? I went to you to recruit first in this particular shape, now you may find me in this shape, this form, my boy. That was the robe, the dress, form in particular.

    Hare Kṛṣṇa. Gaura Haribol.

 

Devotee: What is the original form of Gurudeva?

 

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All relative.

 

(More Bengali for about 1:50 minutes)

 

Matsya, Kūrma, Varāha ___________ gradation of Daśavatāras, according to the development of the Earth, God comes in contact in different forms to draw us towards Him, attract us towards Him.

 

parokṣa-vādo vedo 'yaṁ, bālānām anuśāsanam

[karma-mokṣāya karmāṇi, vidhatte hy agadaṁ yathā]

 

    [“The Vedas often imply something deeper and different from what appears to be the superficial interpretation of its words. Thus the Vedas sometimes indirectly arrive at the Truth. As a child is tempted with something sweet to make it swallow bitter medicine, the Vedas sometimes glorify the path of karma, when the real goal of the Vedas is to promote liberation from karma.”] [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.3.44]

 

loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā, nityā hi jantor na hi tatra codanā

vyavasthitis teṣu vivāha-yajña,-surā-grahair āsu nivṛttir iṣṭā

 

[“Everyone is naturally inclined to have sex, eat meat, and drink wine. There is no need for the scripture to encourage these things. The scriptures do, however, give concessions to people who are determined to do these things. The scriptures therefore grant a license to enjoy sex by allowing sexual intercourse with one’s lawfully wedded wife at the proper time of the month. They grant a license to eat meat to those who perform a certain kind of sacrifice, and a license to drink wine to those who perform the Sautramani sacrifice. The purpose of granting these licenses for sense gratification is only to restrict these activities and encourage people to give them up altogether. The real intention of the Vedic injunctions regarding sex, meat-eating, and wine-drinking is to make one abstain from these activities.”]

[Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 11.5.11]

 

    Guru comes down in different stages to take the disciple from there up to the highest positioned good. So, the Lord says:

 

ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān, [nāvamanyeta karhicit

na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ]

 

[Kṛṣṇa told Uddhava: “Know the Ācārya as Myself. I am the Ācārya . Never envy the Ācārya ; never blaspheme him or consider him to be an ordinary man. Because the Ācārya channels the infinite, he is greater than the sum total of all the finite. Thus, he is more important than all the demigods.”]